Back to the Beginning: Muscle Inc B700 DOT

[BarbecuePete]

   I'm thinking I may dig out the Z28 next.

      Chuck
       

Z/28's got a lot of potential on this one, Chuck..
Take all the weight out and put on wide tyres, drop the rear springs down to around 250lbs 290-300lbs.. and loosen up the diff to a 20/40 and you shouldn't have any problems with the back end coming round on you... 


I'm gonna give my ZR1 a run out at this too once i'm done with the Z/28 and see what it can do too, as it was the first M-inc muscle challange car I built after joining the site i've got a soft spot for it and It's still good enough to pull out online at the power tracks and in the spirit of the challange i'll also build up a new one and see how far i've come... It will probably be a lot different too as the old ZR1 is a pure power build with no WR and skinny tyres... but it still handles well...

Edited for rear spring weight, I thought I had them softer than I did..

[fndrbndr]

One of the first M-Inc cars I built was a ZR1 for mongoose duty, part of a leaderboard campaign.  Can't wait to put it on the track again.  Too bad it's finals week.   

[TheJohnNewton]

My only goal is to post a time. 

[sk15kev]

My only goal is to post a time. 

Lol, my goal will be to get it around Maple without wiping out at the top of the hill or trying to merge with the wall at the bottom.

[fndrbndr]

ZR-1, 95.068

My old tune was far more understeer-prone than I remembered.  After fixing that with sway bars, I was in business.  It's a good little car.  There may be 34.xxx's in it.  There's still a bit more high-speed understeer than I'd like.  Downforce may be the issue.

[Drift2XL]

If I remember correctly, the best time was a 33.9xx. In Blooze's LW Shelby. That's upcoming.

But at this time the Vette's were off-limits. So to see what they could have done is interesting. In early challenges, they were equal to the other muscle. But the ZR-1 has been found to have very slippey aero. And thus has become the best all around car of the bunch with me.

BTW, its closing in two weeks from the start date. Last chance will be Sun night-Mon Morning. But a new one will be posted up Sunday at some time.

[TheJohnNewton]

ZR-1, 95.068
There may be 34.xxx's in it...

Is there a rocket engine swap that fits in B class?

[fndrbndr]

No.  Here's what I've figured out so far.

1.  I'll check, but I'm pretty sure it's a grip/lightweight build.  I originally put the car together for the mongoose project.  I'll try to get my build up in my garage if you want to see my current approach.

2.  Slippery aero cars tend to do well at MV.  If the ZR-1 is indeed one of those, then there's part of the explanation.

3.  The first two turns at Maple Valley are critical, and lots of folks lose time there.  On slicks, I aim for the high nineties for an entry speed.  On DOT's, I find low 90's are more realistic.  On the second turn, enter at about 107 or so, and exit at full throttle.  Also, in the middle section of the track, late apexes can really help carry speed through some of the corners.  I'm no Serial, but if you want to do a test and tune session Friday, I'm definitely game.

[sk15kev]

I assume we are running sim fuel/tires to force a pit stop?

-Kev

[Blooze]

As I make it, the best times for the Survivors (or surviving regulars should I say?) are:

Serial     Z28                94.035s
Drift       Boss              94.615s
Spiny     Camaro SS      96.708s
Blooze    GT500            96.765s
Stank     Charger          100.097s

Sorry if I've missed anyone - be interesting to see just how much we all improve (or otherwise)...

Great Challenge!  Good idea Drift.

Sorry to say that I lost the original tune when I lost my profile.  It was being preserved in the body of the GT-500 that Whiteshark had gifted me (this is the same car that Hellmaker (Yelladog) used to break 60 on Mugello Short.  If one were to muck around in the old posts on the daught gnet, I think I may have posted it.

At any rate, using a GT-500 with my latest recorded tune, I managed a 96.641 this morning.  That tune is a 52/76 Tonka Toy on a full weight reduction car.  I, the well documented rusty Nut behind the wheel, was the primary problem.  I have been working with the grippy little FF D Class cars trying to bring my D Class rankings somewhat up to snuff as of late, and just hopping in a Torqued up Mustang and taking off on a slippery track was event laden, to say the least.

If I a-member correctly, I had adopted a general position on FR cars of setting the Wb to 50% so I will try that later on... after a couple more cups of coffee and allowing my ego to un-bruise for a minute or two.  I think (re, hope) I can break into the 95s with it.  Checking the BucksToon account, my best for this track was a 95.535 running a ZR-1.

$

[chuckrateez]

Z/28's got a lot of potential on this one, Chuck..
Take all the weight out and put on wide tyres, drop the rear springs down to around 250lbs 290-300lbs.. and loosen up the diff to a 20/40 and you shouldn't have any problems with the back end coming round on you... 

   You were spot on, Pete.  The back end lead me around the track.     Actually, I played around with a totally different type of build for the Z28.  I'd been reading a thread on the daught where a fellow was advocating really stiff springs.  He was simply taking the car's weight, multiplying it by the distribution percentage, dividing by 2 and setting the springs to match.  (I.e., if your hypothetical car weighed 2000 lbs. and had a 60% distribution, the front weight is 1200 lbs. divided by 2 gives you 600 lb. springs.  The back springs would be at 400 lbs.)

   His idea is you have the fixed springs from the weight and then you tweak the ARBs and damper settings to finetune.  It makes for some ridiculously high (actually, in some cases it's above the max possible) spring settings, but I figured it wouldn't harm anything to give it a shot.

   Applied to the Z28, it really does make a difference.  I need to do more work with it, but it makes the car ultra-responsive (almost too much so for my style of driving and the fact that I'm using a controller).  I would be interested to see what a good driver thinks of a tune based on that idea.  (If anyone's interested, this is the thread: http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/2014923.aspx)

   FWIW, I also took the ZR-1 out for a quick spin.  My last lap I was on pace to get below 97.xxx and I lost it.  I didn't lose control of the car, but I literally lost over a full second, and I have no idea where I gave it back.  I didn't make any (obvious) mistakes, and I thought I was going just as hard as I could, but I gave it all back in the section of track *after* the nasty uphill right hander.      


      Chuck

[TheJohnNewton]

Well I met my initial goal!!

Challenger  96.206

Now time for coffee.

Two sips of coffee and three laps in the Z28 and...

Z28   95.106

[fndrbndr]

Chuck, in that section, I find it helpful to go a little less than full throttle.  Until you get a feel for it, turn on the suggested line (if you drive without it) and just focus on being as fast as you can while driving that line.  It's not exactly the perfect line, but it's close enough to get you in the ballpark.  I go from 90% or so to full throttle when I have the apex lined up for the last of those turns.  Then, I shift up into fifth before the downhill right hander.  Also, depending on how your tranny is set up, you might gain a lot of time by NOT upshifting to sixth.  I was losing about 4 mph plus shift time in the ZR-1.

[Spiny Anteater]

My old tune was far more understeer-prone than I remembered. 

That makes two of us. Funny thing is I ran it in an online race at Sebring not so long ago and it felt fine (and beat the assorted FWD opposition), but here it just felt awful. I played around with the springs and ARBs (basically stiffened the back a bit and softened the front) and turn-in improved significantly. Trouble is, now the thing feels underpowered, even with that 392bhp. I'm debating whether to lose some tyre width for power

So, I'm not happy with the time, but it does at least represent a massive improvement on the first challenge:

Camaro SS: 94.862

Like Blooze, I also get the feeling I'd do better if I hadn't just been driving something different (R3 BMW/R2 Corvette)

[BarbecuePete]

I took the Z/28 to the enduro race and beat my previous time set in a Focus and got up to inside the top 1400  , its about 10 seconds or so to the top 1000 and if I can just get past the AI for once without them brake checking me and damaging my car  I think I could get close... I sure would like to put a muscle car right up there on the LB at the Mugen's favourite track..

Z/28 - 94.704

Enduro - 40:26.975