Saturday Post-Clio Enduro (with commentary)

[fndrbndr]

This is born of a conversation in another topic, but I decided to give it its own post.  After Saturday's Clio race, we're talking about running a testing enduro for the next series in development.  Sign up here.  I can't give you an exact time, but it will probably be about four PM Eastern.

Restrictions:
A850
RWD Only
300-400 hp (not sure what that is in kW, but if you can enter the 400hp race but are ineligible for the 300hp race in semi-pro, you're good.)

Use any tires you want on any car you want, provided it meets these criteria.  This will mostly mean slicks and at least sport WR (if not full), but anything is admissable in theory.  Note that the various Lotii have a hard time hitting 300hp.  My results in testing thus far are that they're not dominant, but might be competitive, once you prevent them from piling on massive amounts of grip.

Rules: 
Track:  Maple Valley Short
Laps:  75
Damage: Limited
Tires and Fuel: Sim
Starting grid:  Lobby Points
This is the way Bimmer and I were discussing running the series, so we're testing that out as well.  We'll do a 5-lap sprint "qualifier" witha  random starting grid.  The enduro will be run using the "lobby points" option under starting grid.  Anyone involved in an incident during qualifying can be sanctioned, possibly with a "stop and go" in the pits (though that's probably not a huge concern with this group).  Damage will be set to limited, not full, so that one incident doesn't ruin someone's whole race (unless it's really spectacular), but there is still a penalty for contact.  Again, these are proposed rules changes for the next series; we're going to see how they play out in practice.

The roster:
1.  Fndrbndr79-Mazda RX-7
2.  Bimmerlovere39-BMW M3
3.  BarbecuePete
4.  Open2nd-RX-8 (??)
5.  SpinyAnteater-something non-rotary and therefore non-awesome (j/k)
6.  Drift2XL-Who cares?  Just glad to have him online!
7.
8.

Sign up (including car if you like) and make any comments below.  Part of the function of this is to get feedback, so I really want your thoughts, be they positive or negative.  Very little, if any, of what I've laid out above is written in stone.

[bimmerlovere39]

I'm in!  Put me down for a BMW M3 - I'm just not sure which one yet 

[BarbecuePete]

Yeah I'm in... Not sure what car i'll be running yet though...   

[fndrbndr]

Awesome.  The car is optional, and I don't really care whether you follow through on your intentions to run car x vs. car y.  I'm just trying to get a feel for how varied the grid will be.  My testing was basically running the various cars through a QR and seeing what came out where.  My guess is that they should be pretty balanced and varied within this spec, in theory.  I don't know whether it'll play out in practice, though.

[BarbecuePete]

Well I've got a 92 NSX-R and and INGS RX7 built up, just need to try and get a decent tune on them...


I may try the RX8 as well but I'm also tempted by the Silvia S14...


DAMN ALL THESE CARS... too many choices... 

[fndrbndr]

That's the point...there are lots of cars that can be competitive in these restrictions.  I'd begin with an assesment of how much grip or hp you want, as I described here...

http://forza-tuning.net/index.php/topic,944.45.html

Basically, think of PI in two dimensions, not one.  The north-south dimension is PI, from about 150 to 998 (lowest score to highest score that matters).  Now, think of a left-right continuum from maximum grip to maximum power.  Every car has a minimum amount of grip (stock weight and skinny stock tires) and a minimum amount of power (stock engine, no upgrades).  Ignore for the moment the effect of weight, or just think of it as part of the grip equation if you prefer.  A lotus comes stock with massive grip, weighing only a ton and basically having DOT tires stock.  Compared to other cars of its PI, it's going to be underpowered.  It suffers because of this at, say, Sunset, but makes up for this when you go to Tsukuba.  The same is true of the MKII and Mugen Integra.  In full-grip build, they have less hp than other similar cars.  The Mugen is about 225hp IIRC at full grip in B, and most of the sockmonkeys weigh in around 250.  The opposite is true for, say, the Charger.  In B class, it has 1097 hp, and is on pretty poor tires.  Basically, it only turns in theory.  If you show up with this at King Cobra, you're in for a very long day.  At Sunset, however, it should be very competitive, as it will cover the oval section in the blink of an eye. 

How does this play out in the choices of LB cars?  Simple.  Most tracks favor either grip or power pretty decisively.  The ability to hit warp speed on long straights or go through corners with the option of just letting off the gas instead of braking will make certain cars dominant on certain tracks. 

Edit:  From my testing, one of the few cars that can compete with my RX7 (gen 3, not INGS) is my Acura NSX.  Of course, different builds, toons, and drivers may yield very different results, but an NSX is definitely worth pursuing.  I'd love to know what your results are.

[BarbecuePete]

The NSX at the moment is full grip build and comes in under 350hp... only one engine part and thats the race fuel..

I need to run a lot more laps in it though and also I'm not sure what to do about tyres, I just plain don't like the AVONS for anything other than Arcade mode hotlapping as for me they tend to go off too quickly... My usual tyre of choice is the Michelins but I have been tempted to drop right down to the firestones for the extra tyre life....

Running 75 laps if you can only make it 20 laps then you need 3 pitstops.. If you can stretch to say 30 laps then you can get away with 2 pitstops but if you can make it to 38 then you only need 1 and as my race with Spiny the other day proved this can make a big difference to where you finish..

[fndrbndr]

We ran D-class here for 50 laps once.  I ran my MX-5 to a podium and pitted about halfway through on Goodyears (one down from Avon).  You can make it very close to 50 laps without pitting...I think it was Stank who ran about 48 laps before he went in.  Remember, though, that 75 laps of MVS is more like 25 laps of a long ribbon on a lot of courses.  Expect laptimes well South of 40 seconds.  You're in roughly the ballpark of 25 laps of Sebring or Mugello, though I suspect that MVS is among the least even in its tire wear, since half the lap is turning right at 100 mph.

[Open2nd]

I should be there, likely in an RX-8.  I may switch it up though and run something else, but the rotary is likely to get the nod. 

Somewhere I thought I saw 4pm EST, is that time locked?  If it is, I'll be there.

[fndrbndr]

4PM is a reasonable expectation.  Just so we're clear, here's exactly what will happen:

After the finish of the Clio Cup race, I'll exit that lobby.  I will then set up a lobby running Maple Valley Short, A850 RWD 300-400hp, random grid, etc. etc. etc. and throw out invites.  Clio Cup events are usually done about 4 eastern, but the real "locked in" time is just whenever the clio cup races are over for the day.  That said...looking forward to seeing you there!

On a side note, I'm beginning to think that this could end up being a rotary event!   

[bimmerlovere39]

NO!  TEAM PISTON FTW

[fndrbndr]

Well, considering that Open, Snyder, Pete, and I have all expressed at least some interest in running rotaries....I don't think you can win by enough that none of us score at all....lol

Rotary Borg...resistance is futile!  lol

[bimmerlovere39]

Hm... I'll figure that out... somehow

 

[fndrbndr]

::runs off to check air in tires::

[BarbecuePete]

We ran D-class here for 50 laps once.  I ran my MX-5 to a podium and pitted about halfway through on Goodyears (one down from Avon).  You can make it very close to 50 laps without pitting...I think it was Stank who ran about 48 laps before he went in.  Remember, though, that 75 laps of MVS is more like 25 laps of a long ribbon on a lot of courses.  Expect laptimes well South of 40 seconds.  You're in roughly the ballpark of 25 laps of Sebring or Mugello, though I suspect that MVS is among the least even in its tire wear, since half the lap is turning right at 100 mph.

I think that is going to be my problem... even in the quick test I ran last night it only took 5 laps and my left front was already heading north of 210 degrees...  A longer life tyre may help me last longer or a grippier tyre may not scrub so much and generate less heat...

Descisions... decisons... 

Of course it could just be my driving...