Quick Rank Discussion

[Blooze]

This is the place for comments concerning the QR in its current state.

I use the OT to measure the value of taking a car into the Original tracks.  If a car does major outstanding on MV and Boom slang, but sucks on the Infield - there is a chance I may try it as a Mongooser on the OT and OTR snakes...

Mostly, these give me some idea how a particular car is going to fare on a given track.  

The QR is used to actually rank the garage.  Unless I am on a project, my leaderboard sheets are always sorted on the QR.

$

[Edit] The QR system is presented as the first Post in the new Thawts and Other Stuff thread.

[Fit4aking]

I just went and checked the current version of the QR against all of my TVR testing in the Speedshop logbook.  I have the same QR tracks as yours and that was from November.

However.  After looking over the layout of your QR post I think I'll go and run the cars on all 9 tracks from here on out.  I was looking to make the cars good all arounders but it never occured to me to use the info from the track type to tailor the cars to thier strengths.  Since my hiatus I've had several epiphany's regarding my thought process and this has been one of them.

I may have to start logging my cars on the spreadsheets more and develop the ability to sort them using the perameters of the table.  I currently only use it to track hotlap times, and improvements, but only on my dedicated hotlap cars not my entire garage.  I've got some work to do. 

I like the idea of sharing QR times in different classes.  I use your top times and the times you posted as a guide or something to shoot for.  If there were a way to track the top 5 QR times of cars I think it would be helpful.  Maybe a lot of work maybe not.  If it were sortable by driveline type and class that would be nice.  Seeing how my QR'ed cars stack up against the top 5 cars in its class, as well as the top 5 cars that share its driveline.  It would allow the comparison of apples to apples and apples to oranges.  Just a thought.

[Tonka Crash]

It's a little like flossing your teeth, I know it's good for me, but it's hard to make it a habit.  This is an area that I've let slide, I'm not sure what tracks constitute the quick rank at this time.  I remember it being 3 which does sound quick, 9 sounds a little tedious.   Over time I get a feel for what cars are good where and I have my time sheets of my overall leaders by class and track.

[Blooze]

@ Tonka:
The current QR system is described in the first post of new pinned thread "Thawts, etc."  I most likely should have mentioned that in the first post.

As an FYI; For me, the only cars that get the full 9 track treatment are the top five QR cars unless the car is part of some sort of experiment (The new SEAT project for instance).  You are right, doing all nine on every car would become tedious.  Just getting a QR on every built car can be a pain.  One of those flossing deals...

If you look at my leaderboard sheet and how it is laid out, the act of filling out the QR times will give you a sortable value in the track ranking columns.


@ Fit
"If there were a way to track the top 5 QR times of cars I think it would be helpful."

In that the leaderboard sheets are usually sorted on the QR, this sentence sort of confuses me.  I guess I don't see what it is that you want to know.

I have to wonder at the value of mixing the QR times across classes.  But for a few exceptions, the report would segment itself by class anyway.  Sort of like viewing the car list based on PI.

You have to consider the tool we are using when thinking of a lot of this stuff, and how much data duplication you are willing to maintain.  Spreadsheet linking is a limited tool at best.  And if the source sheet itself is sortable, any up stream table will be destroyed after the first sort.

One very good solution would be to use the Kitchen Sink II, the Car sheet, and the Leaderboard sheets to create an Access Database.  I have started this a couple times.  I run out of vision when I hit the part where I have to start creating custom forms.

But it is early and I had a bad night and am quite tired.  perhaps you could present a snippet of the data you want to see and I can be a bit more helpful.

$ 

[Fit4aking]

Way back when you posted this:

For reference sake, here my top 5 A cars and their QRs (consider that you would be a couple seconds faster than me)...

Subaru 22b:  186.515
Tommy K M20b:  186.527
VIS Integra AWD:  187.598
Vette ZR1 (ALS):  187.775
Bimmer WRX:  188.233

I found it very helpful when comparing my QR times doing the TVR testing.  However 3/4 of the times were from AWD cars.  I understand that I will have to run the cars against all types but I only had the ALMS ZR-1 as a RWD reference.  If I had your top 5 RWD A-class cars that would be helpful. 

If there were a place to see that it would be a good bar to aim for.  Even if it is only from one driver.  I just figured it may be possible to use the Kitchen Sink (its enormous) and devise a sort function on the cars by class, driveline, and QR.  I'd hate to spend a good amount of time setting up and tooning a car only to find it way off pace.  If I could pull out the baseline info for a few similar cars I could see if I'm in the ballpark at least. 

If it were on a voluntary basis it may be managable but I'm no excel afficianado and I'm not the best at devising the necessary formulas so it may too much to ask.  However, if you had a top 5 in each class sheet attached to your profile I could download it and see how far away I am from your times.  Same would go for the other members.  Not one big massive list just a bunch of smaller personal ones.  Only for comparison not for crossing information.

Again just a thought, it may be useful to compare "projects" to the cream of the crop.

[gs shyner]

Cream of the crop!  LMAO

And I can be the detrius at the bottom of the soup bowl!
I am content in that knowledge of my place in the Muscle universe

practice, practice, practice.

Thnx guys, havin a ball!

[Spiny Anteater]

To be honest, I've not really entered a lot of lap times into my spreadsheet, so I can't really put out any laptimes yet. That should change once I've finished career and run the time trials though After that I plan on running hotlaps in combination with Exhibition which should allow me to get some QR's up on the board, as well as PR's, TR's and FR's (not to mention PF's, TF's and FF's but that's just me making things complicated!).

As for the addition of Infield Short for the Speedway, to be honest that's a very easy fix on my spreadsheets. The problem comes when they release DLC...

[Blooze]

I think QRs are too intensely personal and associated too closely with the nut behind the wheel to ever work out in some prognostication system.  My QR rankings on an AWD vs. an RWD have an entirely different relationship than say, your QRs on either drive type.  An FF car will have my best time, it will have Dirt's worst.  That sort of thing.

One thing you could do is fill out the comparison line under the rollup rows.  You can do as many as you would like.  A walk through the leaderboards on the friends tab will get you the data.  Then you have a comparison of your best time vs. whoever...

I use the comparison row as a virtual user, Top1000.  That way I can see where my times relate to the top 1000 for a given track.

As I get them done, I will be publishing my top 10, but I can tell you now they won't be evenly distributed across the drive types.  RWD is my last choice.  If there is a competitive AWD, that is what I will use.

I don't spose this is much help to you... sorry.

$

[Fit4aking]

No appology necessary, I was just wondering if that data could be easily extracted using your system.  If the straight answer is no than that's fine.  If I think I'm closing in on one of your fast cars I'll have to tip my hand and ask what your top 5 is for a certain group of cars.

I found a trial code at work that gives me till the end of the month to buy the full version of excel or the freeware I was directed to.  I'll be up and running 100% soon and I'll have a top 5 of my own.

Thanks for giving it some thought anyways.  As I get back into the TVR project I'll have a better idea how usefull the system is for each car.

[gs shyner]

I began my complete D-Class QR not fully understanding the concept.
I have run 6-7 cars so far on the 9 tracks listed and it takes about 1 hr at 4 laps a track per car. (1 more lap if I have penalty time)
I read a post that Blooze did about just using the 3 tracks suggested then run a more thorough Pwr Rank, Twist Rank, Flow Rank on the upper crust.

Curious as to how many laps do you guys run for a baseline.


thnx,
Geo

[Blooze]

Since the QR is not something that I am trying to catch up on, it really doesn't impact me that way.  I use the three QR tracks to tune and fine tune my cars.  I am always on the look out for Career races that involve one of the nine tracks - that way I can get a ranking time while leveling the car up (something else that I do as I build a car).

Five or six laps after the first lap usually gets it if I am just looking for a time.  If I am tuning, trying to identify problems, the number of laps is undefined.

So, since it is a part of my "Let's build a car" regimine, it isn't ever something I am "having to catch up on".

The only thing that falls in that category for me is painting the damned things.     I owe about 150 cars some sort of a paint job.

[Spiny Anteater]

I can't say I really have a set number for setting a baseline - I just run it until I get a lap I'm pleased with. That isn't the same as getting a lap I think is at the limits of my abilities (if I tried that  at the 'Ring I think I'd be in an asylum by now), just that I've set a lap which I feel is a fair reflection ot the car. It might take 3 laps, it might take 10 or even more depending on how well I'm driving, but I will try and give the car a decent run at a track.

[Fit4aking]

When I baseline a car I run it in Freerun.  I run 2-3 laps to get the tires warmed up at 70-80% then I really go for it.  I'll run flat out until I lose a lap to my ghost, that's the baseline.  All improvements will be from there.  The only exception is if I totally tank a lap, like run off or crash, then I start over.

Not the most effective but it works.

[Blooze]

I am updating this old post mostly cause what went before has some baring on what goes now.

I am entertaining the idea of replacing Boomslang (now Sidewinder A) with Leguna Seca.

• Leguna is a grip track, at least, it was always the car that got the best TR ran the best time on Leguna Seca.
• Even tho it is a tad long according to QR track criteria, it is not overly long.
• History, man has it got history.  One sees it on the Speed Channel all the time.  It and Road Atlanta.
• The actual QR tracks are not changing - just the Twisty track ranking will be different.  Legacy data shouldn't be hurt too bad.

Whachall think?

$

[Fit4aking]

I've had your post open just about each time I run a car.  It would be easier for me to just highlight the track titles in my spreadsheet but I've a tad to lazy to even change the color of font most nights.  Actually its more like I'm overly eager to play and don't want to 'waste' time changing data colors.

I like the idea of the QR and use it religiously.  All of my current project cars have been QR'd to death in stock tune, then again in built tune and finally after I'm satisfied with a tune.  The only track I haven't run is Boomslang.  I haven't been on any of the snakes in FM3, not yet at least.  Substituting Laguna Seca for the lil hisser wouldn't be a huge deal for me.  I agree that it is a grip track and have tried like hell to prove otherwise with ALL of my other build types.  Power cars can't come close, flowing cars aren't too far off but a good grip tune, even with slower staightaway speeds, mops the floor with other types.  That doesn't even take into account any of the emotional attachments and historic ties it has with most of us. 

Besides it would only effect my Extended Quick Rank values not my initial Quick Ranks.  They would still be Road Atlanta Short, Tsukuba Full and Sebring Club.  I figured with all of the additional tracks in this version that there would be a 'better tool for the job' eventually.  One thing that jumps to mind is the elevation change in Laguna that isn't on Boomslang.  It would add another element to the often under powered grip cars that may blur the results when compared to a trade off build with slightly more power.