D-Class Muscle Inc. (Super Stock Series by Spanky's Speedshop)

[Fit4aking]

Quoted from Blooze:Muscle Inc D Class-Under Construction

I'm not exactly sure who is doing it or where this project is taking place but if noone has dibs I'll take it up.  After the experience of running ALL of the tracks in my very mediocre 500KR I'm interested in trying to make it more competative as well as seeing if some of the other cars could come around.  

As much as I'm a speed junky I prefer to run a bit more of a momentum race where you can't mess up and power through it or rely on super grip and monster brakes.  Just a personal preference.  I don't know about a series or a challenge but I will go through each of the muscles and a few of the other older cars.  Yes that will include the famed Chevelle and Charger.  I was also going to include the 2000GT, older Nissans, and the Front engine RWD euros.  If they can be balanced I'll find out.  My only realization is that setting the standards is difficult as it relates to taking the cars online.  This aspect is where I want to concentrate.  There has to be a forceable race variant that will help these cars be competative.  As soon as I look over the available restrictions I'll try and figure that out before building the cars.

Just a whim but I really want to give this a go.  If anyone is currently trying this then feel free to jump in and I'll help anyway I can.  If not than follow along here if your interested.  I'll begin this week and hopefully won't get too distracted by the new cars/track.

[bimmerlovere39]

If this does get going, it sounds like it might be fun 

[TheJohnNewton]

I haven't tried D class muscle much beyond your 500KR but I was running a Barracuda in C class yesterday with some of the guys online and I was surprised how well it was taking the twisty stuff.  I'll be watching and possibly trying one or two.

[Fit4aking]

I was behind you on several occasions with my Lexus.  That Cuda is tough to catch and even tougher to pass.  I currently have one in the build phase of C-class.  The D-class is a tough one cause of all the grip available form the AWD and FWD's but seeing how well the 500KR did around several tracks, not just the obvious power tracks, I'm curious as to how well they would do if built correctly.

Research begins tonight.

[Fit4aking]

The Contenders
Super Stock Trans-Am Series: Sponsored by Muscle Inc

D/333 1969 Dodge Charger R/T-SE
375hp/480tq  3,437lbs  Tires:215/70-14
Trans Gearing-(Close Ratio) 2.66, 1.91, 1.39, 1.1
              (T/A High Perf) 2.47, 1.77, 1.34, 1.1
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 9.16lb/hp

D/333 1968 Shelby Mustang GT-500KR
339hp/440tq  3,569lbs  Tires:215/70-15
Trans Gearing-(Close Ratio) 2.32, 1.69, 1.29, 1.0
              (Wide Ratio)  2.78, 1.93, 1.36, 1.0
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 10.52lb/hp

D/337 1968 Chryler Plymouth Barracuda Formula-S
337hp/440tq  3,338lbs  Tires:205/70-14
Trans Gearing-(Close Ratio) 2.66, 1.91, 1.39, 1.1
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 9.90lb/hp

D/34? 1970 Dodge Challenger
425hp/490tq  3800lb  Tires:235/60-15
Trans Gearing-(Close Ratio) 2.66, 1.91, 1.39, 1.1
              (T/A High Perf) 2.47, 1.77, 1.34, 1.1
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 8.87lb/hp

D/349 1970 Ford Mustang Boss 429
375hp/450tq  3,530lbs  Tires:205/70-14
Trans Gearing-(Wide Ratio)  2.78, 1.93, 1.36, 1.0
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 9.41lb/hp

D/353 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle SS-454
450hp/500tq  3,260lbs  Tires:215/70-14
Trans Gearing-(Close Ratio M21) 2.20, 1.64, 1.28, 1.0
              (Wide Ratio M20) 2.52, 1.88, 1.46, 1.0
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 7.2lb/hp

D/354 1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS Coupe
375hp/415tq  3,527lbs  Tires:205/70-14
Trans Gearing-(Close Ratio M21) 2.20, 1.64, 1.28, 1.0
              (Wide Ratio M20) 2.52, 1.88, 1.46, 1.0
Power-to-Weight Ratio:  9.40lb/hp

D/364 1968 Pontiac GTO Hardtop
385hp/450tq  3,505lbs  Tires:205/70-14
Trans Gearing-(Close Ratio M21) 2.20, 1.64, 1.28, 1.0
              (Wide Ratio M20) 2.52, 1.88, 1.46, 1.0
Power-to-Weight Ratio:  9.22lb/hp

D/383 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
290hp/290tq  3,415lb  Tires:205/70-15
Trans Gearing-(Close Ratio M21) 2.20, 1.64, 1.28, 1.0
              (Wide Ratio M20) 2.52, 1.88, 1.46, 1.0
Power-to-Weight Ratio:  11.77lb/hp

Not a final list just the initial list of contenders, some specs, and a bit of diggin revealed the trans gearing specs for each car.  The Mopar use an A833 4-speed, the Fords use the infamous Top Loader, and the GM's all have one variation of the Mucie or another.  Final drives varied greatly by model option packages so its nearly impossible to have only one for each car. 

I didn't have enough time to go to the online section and copy down the multiplayer filters but that is my next step.  Wifey works tomorrow night so I should have the time to go through and do it after the munchkins are asleep.  After the filters are established I'll have to find a combination that is mutually inclusive to all cars.  Then I'll try to build each car within the limits of the filters.  If that works it will be on to a 9 car QR session.  Assuming all of that goes well we could have ourselves a Super Stock Trans Am Series.

[larryCR]

I didn't have enough time to go to the online section and copy down the multiplayer filters but that is my next step. 

Pardon my ignorance, but what are the multiplayer filters you speak of?

[Ske]

I assume he's talking about the limits (overrides) you can set as online host (power, weight, drivetrain etc).

[Fit4aking]

They are the restrictions that the host can place on an online room.  Hop loves to force RWD.  Some like to force all assists off.  Along with things like that you can limit the cars weight, power, region, and year, etc. 

My goal is to find a set of cars that are competative within themselves and that can be filtered online.  The LMMS cars are great and they do hold their own online but you can't force 3200lbs or the rear bumper so there is a chance that someone will enter the room in a lighweight full aero car and take over.  Heck even the original set of Muscle Inc cars don't fit any of the filters of the game.  That doesn't mean the cars will be bad it just means you can't set a level playing field with the masses.

I'll be going through and looking at all of the filters (restrictions) tonight and see if any combination will fit all of the D-class Muscles.

[Detrick]

I'm loving this idea.....I like racing in D-Class although I never see that many online who feel the same.

[Hoplee]

I LOVE my Dino in D-Class. It's going to be difficult to beat it's times with something as heavy and PI limited as a muscle car. Doesn't mean I'm not interested in seeing what you can come up with!

[Fit4aking]

I doub't we'll be competeing with your Dino but if the room has restrictions it won't fly.  It would be fun to see if there were a penalty system that could be put in place to even the field a bit.  That will come after the American cars are sorted.

[Hoplee]

maybe something like:

300-400hp (excludes a few muscle cars but excludes the missile builds as well)
North American Region
older than 1976
Front Engine Position
RWD Drivetrain Type

I REALLY wish they'd included a limit to just set the hp to "less than 500"

[JG4tr]

... or, less than X, for that matter....

[Fit4aking]

Updated the Contender info to include the Power to Weight ratio.  I was suprised at how some of the cars add up.  The Camaro Z28 is such a good car but its stats wouldn't necessarily impress compared to say the Challenger, or the Chevelle.  A bunch of them are relatively close in the area of lbs/hp and tire size.  There is only one car with wider tires but it is the heaviest of all.

I included the trans ratios because of how much I enjoy driving the Panoz with factory gearing.  There are several aftermarket companies that offer overdrive for the transmissions and the final drive gears are usually between .81 and .73.  I intend to figure the gearsets into my initial builds as a baseline.  I figure that those ratio's are fairly close to the 70's era Trans-Am racers.  Final drive will be my main focus for adjustment.  Perhaps I'll list a set of available final drive ratios for the popular rear-ends and see how they fair coupled with period correct ratios.  3.42, 3.55, 3.73, 3.90, 4.10 come to mind initially but I know there are tons more.

[Fit4aking]

Built out 4 cars tonight.  The D-class KR has been stripped, rethought and rebuilt.  I dug out the Boss 429 next as it was in the Ford section of the storage lot.  Built it out very similar to the KR and ran it.  Found that I had an untouched Chevelle (Oh, No, not the Chevelle ! ! !)  Built it out the same as the other two and found I still had 7 PI points to play with.  Looked in the power section and you can add up to 45hp and still be in D-class.  I left it at stock power and ran it.  Suprisingly it's slower    My last D-classer for the night was a DLC Challenger.  Its a heavy car so I modified the build as sort of a bonus to make it more similar.  It has the widest tires of any car built so far but it is also the heaviest, a nice compromise.  Ran it as well. 

The tracks I chose to run all the cars on were Boomslang, Maple Valley Long, and Tsukuba.  In retrospect I should scrap Boomslang and pick another snake with a few more sharper less flowing turns.  Blooze will probably kill me but I only captured my times on Boomslang.  Amazingly, all of the Muscle times were within a tenth or two of my Solstice time.  All were faster than my original Nurberg built KR.  All but the Chevelle are faster than my Solstice.  However no car could better my Tsukuba times, close but no cigar.

In first place, the Shelby KR with a 32.891
Next is another Mustang, the Boss, 32.962  (This car went straight to the top of my D-class list, even above my WW Civic)
My first D-class Mopar ran a solid 33.019
Bringin up the rear the Chevelle, 33.578

Each car had the same 54.5% toon, each car ran the factory trans gearing above with a 3.55 final drive.  Thats right, all 4-speeds.

The builds are looking to be 215 tire width, stock compound, street weight reduction (all above 3000lbs), full platform, and aero.  I added power to the Boss to get to D400 but it was only 8hp.  As stated I left the Chevelle at stock power because it already has the most and I believe that is where the stigma lies.  The Challenger recieved Sport weight reduction as it was the porker of the bunch.  All of the cars are fun to drive.  They aren't the worst handling cars but the Challenger is by far the most stable with the Chevelle the hairiest.  I know the Chevelle can be adjusted into shape and being the slowest out of the gate leads me to believe it may be allowed in.

5 more cars to go and assuming they all can fit the build we could be on our way to a series.  The online restrictions would be above 3000lbs, RWD, American, and if we get to runnin them together we would have to have a 300-400 class and a 400-500 class. (Although only 2 cars are in the higher power range).  I'm holding my breath as the last of the cars are in the upper end of the PI range.  If the under pwered Camaro Z28 can run competatively