Author Topic: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A  (Read 3524 times)

Blooze

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2007, 09:25:08 PM »
I just spent some time looking through the new Kitchen Sink II that Tonka released.  I must say, I feel richer for having that available on my computer.  If you haven't downloaded it, I recommend that you do so. 

;D $
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Ske

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2007, 03:49:08 AM »
ive seen much the same going on down at the track at club level :)

- in one garage, the car pull in to the pits its hooked up instantly to the computer, data downloaded, the whole team staring at the monitor - whilst the driver gets out goes into the motor home gets changed
- next door garage, the old team boss (whos obviously been doing it since he was a whipper snapper) pats the driver on the back, and simply says, "so how was it, how'd it feel out there?"
- of course, the 3rd approach, is the driver jumps out... and immediately starts adjusting tyre pressures and ARBs himself :)
suppose the 3rd is the closest to FM2 :)   

I think I fall into category 2 here, but I sometimes jump the gun and end up in 3. Although once I'm "getting close" I quickly switch to mode 1. I really am a bit lost aren't I? lol

Blooze

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2008, 07:09:34 AM »
T'other day I saw a post by Spiny talking about how he looked at lap times as percentages and setting limits or goals based on the percent his time is vs. the number one time.  "That makes sense," I thought, and then continued on my way.  It wasn't until last night when I'd reached my toleration limit for my current "Top1000" goal mechanism, that it dawned on me how strong Spiny's percentage system was.

My old system required finding the top 1000 time for a track.  This required two hits on the PC Leaderboards and, depending on network activity, could take quite a bit of time.  Conversely, the #1 Time required by Spiny's method is available almost instantly everytime you position the selector on a track in Free Run.  Keeping the sheet up to date is no longer a chore.

Increasing the goal with the old system was pretty much impossible.  Finding, for instance, the top 500 time 25 database hits.  That would get old in a real hurry.  With the new system, all that is required is to change your percentage Goal.  The sheets are setup with a 95% goal now - want it tougher? Change the number to 96%.  How hard is that?

The functionality of a spreadsheet allows for calculating your Goal time and the difference between your current time and your new goal.  It is nice to have a number to shoot for rather than just trying to get faster.

The new leaderboard has this goal system set up in the RWT, OT, and ROT sheets.  All you need do is start filling in the #1 times as you run your laps.  Simple as carrots and peas...

:) $
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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2008, 09:29:46 AM »
Sadly, I'm just not "getting it" with the LeaderBoard.XLS sheet.

I have a few questions:-

What goes in cells B3-B13?  Why the different colors in column A?
What are the abbreviations QR, FR, TR and PR?
What is the "snapshot" line?
And the "% Numero Uno %" - what goes in there?

Finally the "percentage goal" - does 95% mean the number one time from the leaderboard divided by my time should be >= 95% (as a goal)?

I think I'm concluding that I don't know what problem is being solved by this sheet, and I'm feeling very dumb right now.

Blooze

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2008, 10:43:28 AM »
Quote from: GBO Possum
I think I'm concluding that I don't know what problem is being solved by this sheet.
This spreadsheet is used to track your times for your various cars in a given class.  You would have a workbook for each class, 10 of them alltogether.  Where as the leaderboard performs a rollup of your best times, this sheet performs a roll up for each car in your garage.

As time goes on and you accumulate data - times on the various cars that you build - it becomes feasable to sort the sheet on any of the tracks, or by any of the ranking fields.  This can help you make decisions about which car is best for which task, and so on.

The sheet also provides a check/balance against your Hotlap rankings.

And now it provides a simplified (at least I thought so) goal managment system.

Additionally, there is a stat sheet (Stable) where you can accumulate information about each car.  Although this data can be entered, the way that I use it is to link to the various cells in my Car Sheet.  This creates a WORM (write once, read many) scenario, a sort of ersatz Object Oriented design.  Information about a car is maintained in the Car Sheet.  It is viewed, sorted and compared in the Stable sheet.
 
Quote from: GBO Possum
What goes in cells B3-B13? 
That is where you enter the car's name, or a link to the cell where the car's name is stored.  You can have as many rows here as is needed.  For instance, my A Class sheet has around 40 cars in it.

Quote from: GBO Possum
Why the different colors in column A?
That is a cutesy deal I put in place to quickly draw attention to the top 5 cars, or the top 10 cars.   It was also me just experimenting with runtime formatting.

Quote from: GBO Possum
What are the abbreviations QR, FR, TR and PR?
This question hilites the main problem here.  There are discussions and projects that have been going on for a number of months - this sheet just comprises some of them.  QR is Quick Rank, FR = Flowing Rank, Twisty Rank, and Power Rank.  The columns associated with those acronyms rollup the times associated with tracks that meet its namesake conditions.  The ranking system has been discussed in threads all over this board.  In this garage particularly, the ranking system is discussed in the thread Quick Rank Discussion, and is described in the first post of the thread Thawts and other Stuff.  And while I'm at it, even tho the attachments are no longer there (I am trying to keep the latest and greatest just on the tip), most of the posts in the Spreadsheets thread have information about dealing with the leaderboard sheets.

Quote from: GBO Possum
What is the "snapshot" line?
The line just below the Snapshot line is a rollup line - actually, it contains the minimum time entered for each of the tracks.  The results should be exactly like looking at your times on the actual leaderboard.  If the rollup row is row 21, then the cell E21 contains the, or should contain, the exact value as your overall time for each of the track subdivisions... Real World, Original Track, and Reverse Tracks.  Note: until you have completed all the tracks, these Overall times will be the same rounded off Hr:Min:ss as the Over All Classes rank.

Now, let us assume that you are starting a project in D class - you are going to be tuning your cars, and practicing, trying to improve.  It would be nice to measure how much of an improvement you've made during this project.  That is the snapshot line.  You would hilite the rollup cells (D21:AN21) and copy them.  Then you would right click on the cell D20, select "Paste Special" from the popup menu, then click the option "Values" from the "Paste Special" dialog box.  The Improvement line will become all zeros, and now it will total just the improvements that you make during your project.

Quote from: GBO Possum
And the "% Numero Uno %" - what goes in there?
The Number One time for each of the tracks.  Numero Uno is Spanish for Number One.

Quote from: GBO Possum
Finally the "percentage goal" - does 95% mean the number one time from the leaderboard divided by my time should be >= 95% (as a goal)?
With a Goal Percentage of 95% you are saying "I want to be within 5% of the very best time.  So,

If the Number on time is 100 seconds, then your goal will be 100 / .95 or 105.263 seconds.  If your current time is 108 seconds then you need to improve your time by 2.737 seconds.  All of this is calculated for you.  All you need to do is enter your times when you run them, and enter the number one time (it is right there when you select a track in Free Run - take a couple seconds and update your sheet.  Its not that big a hastle.


I think the primary problem is that I didn't doc the thing like the person getting the sheet had never been here before.  I sort of assumed that he would have read what has been going on, or may even have the previous versions of the sheet and be pretty well versed in its use.  A lot of this stuff has been around quite awhile.  Quick Rank was started during the first month of Forza One.  There has been too much go by for me to re-hash it from the ground up every time we want to talk about it.

You might want to take some time and read through some of the threads in my garage here.  Almost all of them deal in one form or another with the spreadsheets that are stored in the Archive.

:) $
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 11:07:53 AM by Blooze »
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Spiny Anteater

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2008, 11:04:06 AM »
Isn't it funny how we all see things in a different way. The percentage thing is typical really. Ever since I first looked at the leaderboards (back when they were doing the "Offline Challenges" in FM1), I've always thought of my goals as being to get within, say 5% of the best time rather than say 5 seconds. For some reason, despite lots of evidence to the contrary, I always assumed that was how most people looked at it. Don't know why I thought that, but I did ???

Still, I'm glad you're finding it a useful tool Blooze. I know I just could not be bothered to check up every 1000th place time, then go back 2 days later to get the new ones because there were more people in the top 1000. With the % of leader system, you probably only need to check once a week, if that, and even then most of the times won't have changed. :)
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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2008, 12:26:18 PM »
Aha, now it makes sense.  I think I'll transfer this into the Kitchen Sink II.  I'm using the Sink to keep track of multiple versions of cars, so I'll use links to pull the car names in.

Also, I might be tempted to take an average of the Numero Uno top 3 or 5 to water down outliers.

Thanks!

Blooze

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2008, 04:05:15 PM »
One thing about goal setting and persuing is to keep things within reach, somewhat, and be somewhat realistic in your approach.

I have my global R4 goal set to 96%, which may be a tad hopeful.  So I was a banging away at BoomSlayer Reverse, trying to get to my goal of 29.960 seconds.   My hammer for the task is the Volvo S60 R, which I think is tuned within a gnat's ass of perfect, and for me, the most comfortable R4 car in my garage.

I kind of walled up at around 27.5, so I slowed my attack down, concentrated on my line and breaking zones, concentrated on making sure I wasn't over stressing the tires and jerking the wheel around.  Just a Sunday drive...

...and I knocked it down to its current 27.396.  Crap!

So I decided to look the situation over just a bit.  27.396 - good for 180th place.  Not that big a deal on the Reverse side cause not many have run them, but the time would be top 200 on the frontards track as well and 25000-ish have run it.  So not bad...

Of the top 200, 3 cars are not the #1 Audi S4, me and another guy (135) in a Volvo, and a guy in a #22 Viper (19#).   Therefore, I managed to get a top 200 time with an uncommon car.  Not bad there either.

A time of 29.960 would rank 109 currently.  A nice goal, but a bit lofty.  I have no times that rank that high.

The upshot of all this deliberation was for me to log the time and move to the next track.  A lofty goal is cool, but no sense eating yourself up about it.  And remember, I still got the Audi on deck... ;)

Now, let's see if I can run 36.102 on Russel's Viper...

;D $
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Tonka Crash

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2008, 05:23:00 PM »
Does anyone have a list of the top times across all classes and tracks?  It doesn't have to be up to the second current.  I figure the top times won't change by much more than a few milliseconds until a new leaderboard car emerges.
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Blooze

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2008, 05:55:02 PM »
Not me...  and because the number one time is listed on the gate as you enter the track I figure I'll let attrition handle it.

:) $
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larryCR

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2008, 06:17:37 PM »
One thing about goal setting and persuing is to keep things within reach, somewhat, and be somewhat realistic in your approach.

I have my global R4 goal set to 96%, which may be a tad hopeful.  So I was a banging away at BoomSlayer Reverse, trying to get to my goal of 29.960 seconds.   My hammer for the task is the Volvo S60 R, which I think is tuned within a gnat's ass of perfect, and for me, the most comfortable R4 car in my garage.

I kind of walled up at around 27.5, so I slowed my attack down, concentrated on my line and breaking zones, concentrated on making sure I wasn't over stressing the tires and jerking the wheel around.  Just a Sunday drive...

...and I knocked it down to its current 27.396.  Crap!

So I decided to look the situation over just a bit.  27.396 - good for 180th place.  Not that big a deal on the Reverse side cause not many have run them, but the time would be top 200 on the frontards track as well and 25000-ish have run it.  So not bad...

Of the top 200, 3 cars are not the #1 Audi S4, me and another guy (135) in a Volvo, and a guy in a #22 Viper (19#).   Therefore, I managed to get a top 200 time with an uncommon car.  Not bad there either.

A time of 29.960 would rank 109 currently.  A nice goal, but a bit lofty.  I have no times that rank that high.

The upshot of all this deliberation was for me to log the time and move to the next track.  A lofty goal is cool, but no sense eating yourself up about it.  And remember, I still got the Audi on deck... ;)

Now, let's see if I can run 36.102 on Russel's Viper...

;D $

My guess is that you'll be even quicker in the Audi. In the R classes I believe it is all about configuration and P/W ratio. The Audi and the Volvo are both AWD, and the Audi has slightly better numbers on paper. Tune it right and you're home.

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2008, 12:19:21 PM »
Dang you Blooze and your voice of reason spreadsheets. 

I had a snafoo with my billed vs paid hours this week and I couldn't get it through my boss head that I was right.  Turns out there is a very clear spreadsheet that was created to allow me to illustrate my concern.  Turns out I was right after all.  Now my work CPU always has Excel running in the background.   >:(  :D
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Blooze

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2008, 06:04:05 AM »
Very cool!

There is nothing quite like showing up to argument with facts that you aren't expected to have...

One of the first things I did when tasked with creating a software solution for a business is talk to the troops and find out how many personal little spreadsheets were being used to cover their asses and accomplish tasks that the current system couldn't handle.  And, if you find that some folks are using, having designed and maintain, an Access database, then the current system is in dire straits indeed.

After chatting with those types of folks, the worker bees, in the smoke holes and at a few lunches, it was always fun to go to the next "Design" meeting.  It is surprising how many folks that have no clue as to how a business works are involved with the new software system.  It isn't hard to spot the political dickwads however.  They are the ones that want to discuss the fonts used by the report writer.

:) $
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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2008, 08:22:01 AM »
Tripped over a handy trick in Excel, especially useful when working with workbooks with large numbers of sheets like Tonka's wonderful Kitchen Sink II.

With a small screen (think "laptop") the tabs just don't fit across the bottom, and navigation is awkward.  There is a better way

Go to the navigation icons to the left of the tabs and Right Click on any of the little forward or back arrow things.  Up pops a vertical menu with the names of the sheets.

Of course there is the keyboard shortcut too, Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDown, but you knew about them, right?

Tonka Crash

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Re: Spreadsheet Discussion and Q & A
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2008, 10:51:38 AM »
I knew about the Ctrl-PgDn Ctrl-PgUp keys, not the right click menu though.  I just got a new Dell M1530 a couple weeks ago, and the Pg-Up, Pg-Dn keys are in a different spot for the first time since at least 2000 when I got my first Dell Laptop. 

Did you know you can just drag and drop the tabs to reorder them?  It doesn't break any linked information between sheets when you reorder them. I normally put the tabs I use most frequently up front.  The others trickle to the end of the list.
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