LMMS: Late Model Muscle Series

[Fit4aking]

Panoz a cheater car.......I love it.  I've had one in A class for quite some time.  Love that damn thing.  I'll have to build yet another one for this.  The CTS-V has always been a solid all around car.  The problem is it doesn't really shine anywhere.  I really like driving it, it handles well even in heavy trim.  Power options are plentiful and the C6.R engine swap in A-class is an excersize in throttle control.

Can't wait to run these.  Any chance they'll be ready for a proper introduction soon ? ? ? ?

[Drift2XL]

@ Blooze
Thanks for the numbers. I'm not really worried about the lap times. It was the build numbers that I wanted. It seems that it is another DF brick. The RA times are a tenth off what I have run in a Shelby. That is a push heavy car. But a total powerhouse.

No offence, but I love Tsukuba and should shave off at least a second, probably more. The numbers say it should at least stay with the Panoz there. That one has run a 56.119.

My baseline set up is very similar to a Wb build. In fact most of them are running the same numbers. At least the ones that weren't pretuned from a world sports championship I was looking at.

@ Hop
Yes, you are correct, but it doesn't matter what slick. I wasn't going to mandate a single tire. I just wanted to keep the same parts I could to remove any unrelated factors. I like the GY's alot better than the Avons. And the Shelby discount helps out too.

The Viper is just going to dominate the twisty tracks big time. There is just too much tire. And there is no possible change. There is only one build to keep it in A Class with slicks. No power, add aero, slicks and no weight reduct. I was actually worried that it would crush everything like the new Z06, but the aero really drags the car down big time. The rest of the cars reached at least 150, some hit 160, on the backstretch on RA. The Viper barely hit 145. Once it hit 130, it died. Not only that but I have full front DF and min rear. And it still has an aero push.

I was hoping the Challenger was going to come in a little lighter, to be honest. The Charger really doesn't feel as heavy as it is. The Charger really doesn't like A Class at full weight reduct. It feels all over the place. It doesn't feel like it has any grip anywhere. It seems it slides through the turns.
 
@ Fit
Its coming along pretty quickly. I fear the Infinity to be truthful. It got good grip, balance and one of the best top ends. Better with a turbo. I tested with a Roots SC. I've only got two QRed right now. Panoz is leading the way over the Shelby.

The Shelby needs to be looked over again. There's something not right about that car. It's got super wide tires, but it won't balance out in the turns. Its big understeer everywhere. I need to do some telemetry work on that one. It a shame, I was planning on that one to be my mainline car.

I'm off to run a couple more. And to see about some official looking logo.

Then its time to paint the walls with the blood of terrorists. Disgusting, but fun.

[Drift2XL]

I have 4 cars through QR. And the leader so far is the .... Charger SRT8?

Panoz Esperante             Shelby GT500       Mustang GT       Charger SRT8
Tsu  56.119                   56.497                 56.715              56.369
RAS  56.199                   56.433                56.525              55.751
Seb  73.207                   72.996                72.473              73.120
      185.575                 185.926               185.713            184.240

You ever have a car you know can do better times than it showed? That's the GT. Turns in way better than the Shelby. Just need to settle down and be smooth to be faster.

[Blooze]

I took a few liberties with your table - mostly cause that is the sort of stuff I do.  If we were in a white board meeting I would tell you that your object oriented analysis was faulty and you had missed the natural key.  Then, of course, you would get pissed at me having questioned you in the middle of a meeting and you would threaten to kick my ass if I didin't shut up.

Hopefully if you hit quote, you can see the underlying code...

Car Name:	RAS:	SEB:	TSU:	QR:
Panoz Esperante:	56.199	73.207	56.119	185.575
Shelby GT500:	56.433	72.996	56.497	185.926
Mustang GT:	56.525	72.473	56.715	185.713
Charger SRT8:	55.751	73.120	56.369	184.240
Name:	x	x	x	x
Name:	x	x	x	x
Name:	x	x	x	x
Challenger Concept ($):	56.597	75.017	57.648	189.262

The Challenger was everything for handling and tires at Race level - GY Slicks.  The power was added to 850 PI, just under 500 Hp at 494.

$

[Hoplee]

The Challnger I built wound up almost identical to Blooze's. I only ran MVRev and was turning 94s until I added the FORZA rear bumper and brought it down to 93s. It's not going to dominate anything but it's not terrible either.

[Drift2XL]

Thanks Hop and Blooze. You two have helped out a bunch.

And thank you Blooze for the table. I'm not as up on coding as I liked to be.

[Drift2XL]

A follow up after looking at and interpreting the Challenger Concept's numbers.

This could be the most versitile and multi-build of all the cars. The low top end numbers in full grip build would even out nicely if some tire was given up to make that Hemi breathe. The extra power would kick the top speed up to around the rest of them.

These cars are looking good.

[Drift2XL]

Whoops!

I almost let the Cobra R slip through the cracks. The profile I was testing is stuck in Europe. And I never got the Cobra R. I forgot that it was there.

It has been added.

Oh and if anybody has any unicorn Camaros, ahem, if they can fit the rules, they are welcome also.

[Drift2XL]

I was working up the Cobra R for a lightweight build. And it came up about 40 lbs light.

So after some creative building. I finally got it past 3200. But it took one of the aftermarket rear bumpers to do it. I think I'll allow it.

Non Forza body parts on the rear bumper and side skirts are in. Just no active diffuser.

[Blooze]

Does that mean we still can't use the Forza Rear Bumper?

[Drift2XL]

Does that mean we still can't use the Forza Rear Bumper?

Yes. I want these cars to be bricks as far as aero is concerned. It keeps a bit of top speed stability. There aren't many tracks that you can get a benefit from "slicking" out with a body kit. Basically the parts become dead weight. The FM bumper does make difference in top speed and DF on almost any track.

I would have liked a ballast feature that was on GT 4. That's how you build a race car IRL. You build it as light as possible. Then add weight where you want it to get up to min weight.

I know its opening a can of worms, but I am being selfish. I want a Mustang at minimum weight. The R is the only one close.

Now about getting some top end on it....

[Blooze]

Yes. I want these cars to be bricks as far as aero is concerned. It keeps a bit of top speed stability. There aren't many tracks that you can get a benefit from "slicking" out with a body kit. Basically the parts become dead weight. The FM bumper does make difference in top speed and DF on almost any track.

I guess I understand that to a point.  But it has me building temporary compromise types of cars.  And once clear of the challenge they get sold, or rebuilt with the difuser.

I would have liked a ballast feature that was on GT 4. That's how you build a race car IRL. You build it as light as possible. Then add weight where you want it to get up to min weight.

That right there, almost eggzackerly, is what the Wb thing is all about.  I think we can do that.

[Spiny Anteater]

I would agree with Blooze on that one - I was racing Hop and some other guys earlier this week - my Crossfire, Hop's Challenger Concept (quote: Challenger Concept, why do you suck so bad?) - and we were being caned by the other guys. It got so bad I ended up digging out my Tuscan to regain some respectability (didn't get placed any higher, but at least I was within sight of them).

The cars are fun to drive, and they can be competitive amongst themselve, but as Hop was saying at the weekend, the fact that the spec cannot be set online means that they will always suffer and so won't necessarily be people's first choice. I guess the moral is not to take these cars online unless you're with friends...

[Drift2XL]

Update to change rules and allow C4 GS and C5 Z06.

Updates in red

[bimmerlovere39]

Update to change rules and allow C4 GS and C5 Z06.

Updates in red

Yay!  Corvettes!

Guess what I'm building tonight