TVR, Distinguished History

[Fit4aking]

TVR, Distinguished History

TVR was established in 1947 by Trevor Wilkinson. The first cars were specials using the drivelines from production cars, tuned and installed in a lightweight TVR chassis with minimal bodywork to maximise the agility and power-to-weight ratio, which remain TVR virtues to this day.

TVR made use of proprietary engines, like many low-volume manufacturers, to power its cars for many years. However, there were those who opined that this somehow diminished the cachet of the Great British sports cars from Blackpool, despite the fact that the engines, by the late '80s, were very heavily modified to TVR's own unique, high-power specifications.

That began to change in the early '90s with the birth of the TVR V8 engine, which in 1995 became the world's first racing engine to be de-tuned and installed in a road car: the TVR Cerbera. The Cerbera was a rude awakening for the supercar establishment. "0-100mph in nine seconds dead," screamed Autocar magazine's front cover.

But the Speed Eight (aka AJP8) was only the beginning. In 1997, a Griffith Speed Six concept car was unveiled at the Earls Court Motor Show. It showcased the TVR Speed Six engine, a very modern take on the quintessentially British, growling straight-six. The Speed Six engine, like the Speed Eight, first appeared in the Cerbera. But the Speed Six is renowned as the power-house of the jaw-dropping Tuscan Speed Six that starred with John Travolta and Halle Berry in the Hollywood movie Swordfish.

The Speed Six is also the power plant of the T400R, with which TVR returned to Les 24 Heures du Mans in France in 2003 and 2004. Both Speed Six-powered T400Rs finished this most gruelling of automotive challenges - no mean feat in a class dominated by German and Italian stalwarts.

At the end of 2004, the Speed Eight engine, after an illustrious motorsport career, not to mention a spectacular crop of headlines in the world's motoring press, ceased production with the Cerbera. Now, the Speed Six engine, in various guises, is at the heart of every current TVR model.

And here is the point.

Every TVR car is now TVR-powered. Every TVR is a true thoroughbred sports car powered by Blackpool-built engines, all with serious motor racing provenance.

This is all the more remarkable when compared with the efforts of other Great British marques that have fallen into the hands of volume manufacturers. In the same decade that TVR declared full independence, every other Great British marque went the other way, sharing engines with sister marques.

This 'reverse trend' runs deeper than simply striking cars that look like no others, powered by special engines that provide driving and performance characteristics like no others. Climb inside a TVR and you will find unique interiors with unique controls. A TVR is a very special driving environment indeed.

The uniqueness goes further still because every TVR is hand-built to customer specifications. Your own TVR will be a unique alchemy of passion, artistry and technology in which you are personally involved. Specifying your own TVR is an experience to be savoured, but the amazing buying experience is but a prelude to the wonder of ownership.

A TVR is engineered to invite your skill, judgement and feel to unleash the purest, most exhilarating and involving motoring experience: the spirit of driving.

Quoted from  TVR.co.uk

[Spiny Anteater]

And they rumble so much if one pulls up next to you, you can feel it in your car. I really wish TVR hadn't gone bust 

[Fit4aking]

We can only hope a certain Russian billionaire can do the company good.  The passion is there, remember a TVR gathering outside of Pariliment a few years ago.  I doubt very seriously if that type of outcry would happen (or be allowed) on the steps of the Capital building.  Noone protested when Diamler bought Chrysler, no huge protests or gatherings in DC that I remember.

I only hope that as my bank accoun grows the availability to own at least one of these cars in my lifetime isn't just a pipe dream.  Recently a Noble M400 went for sale in PA, not far from home, and I've seen some awesome cars traded in to my dealer so I hold out hope.  Worst case I bang on John Travolta's door and see if I can buy his Tuscan.  Yeah, the one from the movie, he bought it.

Till then at least I have this place to keep notes on my virtual TVR garage.

[bimmerlovere39]

I personally like Nobles a good bit...

[Fit4aking]

I've decided to take all of the TVR's in stock form and run a QR using the Blooze track list.  Road Atlanta II, Sebring Short, and Tsukuba.  (They should be a real treat in the Speed 12).  I began last night with the Tuscan S.  A lowly little A class car that has a piddly 751 PI rank but is a great all around car.  I had a good time setting top 100 times in the factory spec series in this car and I have a lot of seat time in it stock for some reason. 

I was running it in Free Run so I didn't have to detune my current car so I was up against my best RA2 ghost.  Hoplee would be happy to know that it is a 914/6.  In about 7 laps I had already passed my fastest overall A class time by nearly 1.2 seconds in a box stock Tuscan S.  I was halfway through my Sebring run when I was lured away to run with Dirt, Hop and Rowdy but it shows some real promise.  I doubt that my Sebring time is in Jeopardy as that 914 reared its ugly head again and I was chasing that wing till it disappeared into the distance.  IIRC I was in the 75 second range but had only run a couple laps and I left about a second on the track in braking zones and the last turn.

The Tuscan in my garage was running a not so great 114:1xx around Mugello Long before I demolished it by over a second with an Exige 240 Cup (which is now in Rowdy's possesion, so watch out).  I look forward to rehashing the build and really working this car out before moving on to the Tuscan R. 

I'll post times and details as this works itself out.  I'll also throw some pics up of my Team LNT replica paint scheme for anyone interested. 

[Hoplee]

Do you think that Smolensky has just about killed TVR? Seems like a pretty sad story at this point. I was disappointed to learn that the cars, when they were still being built, were being assembled in Turin. He also moved body production there. He even moved the company out of the old Blackpool location.

just sad.

[Fit4aking]

Just because you have money doesn't mean you have brains.  I do believe that his vision to revive a dying car company had a solid base.  He understood that cars had a cult like following and maintaining production would make money.  What I don't think he understood was how deep the TVR roots went in Britian.  Moving production of parts to other countries or other parts of the same country jumbled a history that stood for decades.  I doubt that many Americans have that level of brand loyalty.  Asians certainly don't.  Well to be fair in buying practice they do but I can't remember any large scale organized protest to manufacturing Toyota's in the states.

It is a sad story that bears repeating.  A fairly small bunch of car enthusiasts helped kill the car company they were trying to support.  Not buying the newer models of a largley hand built car hurts the ENTIRE company.  I assure you the workers literally saw the assembly line slowing down.  Now why would that happen witha billionaire at the helm and a huge following.  Because the buying public didn't support the brand through a transition.  They cried enough to Parliment but I doubt the country would step in and purchase the brand, its not Germany you know.  Dwindling sales ultimately flipped the switch, plain and simple.  The Sagaris is the last production model and there are rumered to be several unfinished chassis' in the plant even still.  I'd buy one, in any state of build. 

I hope it is rebuilt and they follow the statements from thier website to become a world player but I somehow doubt it.  Any car company with enough money to actually help them would demand controlling interest.  The world market entry would require conformity to the rules of export and that isn't the basis of any TVR.  Watch the episode of Top Gear and you'll see that the cars still don't have airbags, ABS, TCS or many of the modern ammenities that even the most basic cars have standard.  But why should they, your buying a TVR.

[Fit4aking]

I went through and QR'ed all of the TVR's in FM2 tonight.  I figured it would provide a solid starting point as well as give me an overall idea what to do with each car.  Suprisingly the TVR's were right on the heels of my 914 ghost that seems to hold all of my A-class records.  The Speed 12 was much faster than my Ligenfelter but the lack of grip caused issues passing it in the turns.  Here's what I have so far.  The tracks I used were Road Atlanta II, Sebring Short, and Tsukuba.

Tuscan S A751
Road Atlanta II:  58:797
Sebring Short:  76:566
Tsukuba:  59:286
Total QR:  194:649

Tuscan R A834
Road Atlanta II:  57:925
Sebring Short:  75:631
Tsukuba:  57:760
Total QR:  191:316

Sagaris A806
Road Atlanta II:  58:260
Sebring Short:  76:800
Tsukuba:  59:221
Total QR:  194:281

Speed 12 U999
Road Atlanta II:  55:176
Sebring Short:  67:332
Tsukuba:  54:579
Total QR:  177:087

I really like the stability of the Tuscan R but it is in need of grip badly.  The Tuscan S is very good all around but it has adiff issue exiting turns.  The Sagaris seems like it would be a solid all around car but the stock gearing is crap.  It has a very planted front end but the 3-4 gear change is a detriment to the top end of this car.  The Speed 12, well that thing is an execise in throttle contol and alway staying one gear up.  I was pulling 5th throught the sweeper at RA2 and was over 200 at Sebring, those are some serious speeds. 

I doubt that any of these cars will make a solid A-class car and I fear that neither will do anything note-worthy in S-class.  Just my initial observation.  I'll begin upgrading the Tuscan S next and see how it fairs in A class trim.  I'll make the best of several builds but I believe that grip is king here.  No TVR is hurting for power, well none of them here.  More deliberate information soon as I have time to log it and format it for each car.

Feel free to discuss but I'd like to keep all of the times mine so there is no question that the car is the variable not the driver.

[Hoplee]

The Sagaris is decent in S-Class as grip build. U-Class is silly so I won't even go into it. The best of them for A-Class IIRC is the Tuscan S.

[Blooze]

That looks like a really good start!

For reference sake, here my top 5 A cars and their QRs (consider that you would be a couple seconds faster than me)...

Subaru 22b:	186.515
Tommy K M20b:	186.527
VIS Integra AWD:	187.598
Vette ZR1 (ALS):	187.775
Bimmer WRX:	188.233

How do you see the upgrade trail going?  The S to A, the R and Sagaris to S?

$

[Fit4aking]

I scrapped my A-class build on the S.  For the sake of science I made it all stock again.  I had a fairly good grip tune on the car and it did well.  I mainly built it for a Mugello Long challenge and was pulling low 115:xxx's.  It wasn't the best car I had but for a full RWD build it was beatin up on the MR guys.  I found that the front wing was causing too much of a push in the car so I had it nearly as low as it could go.  The rear wing made the most difference. 

As far as upgrades go for the S.  I need to experiment with Aero and Grip but it will need a bit of power.  Making these cars too light really accentuates the happyness in the rear end. 

My Sagaris is built for S-class.  It isn't as light as it could be and the aero makes a big difference there too.  I believe it only has 450hp and it is a rocket.  Not as stable as the Saleens, Benz's and McLarens but it can run with them. 

I intend to max the cars for A before sending them straight on up.  I know these cars are in the game for a reason and trying to make them competative is gonna be my mission.  Stay Tuned.

Thanks for the reference times Blooze, my spreadsheet is still a veritable virgin specially in A-class.  I was suprised to see that the Tuscan R is within 3 seconds overall of the WRX.  For a stock untuned vehicle that is pretty impressive to me.

[Fit4aking]

TVR Testing Round 2

I had some time to go through and play with the TVR's a bit more today.  I figured the natural progression would be to go and upgrade the cars using the platform parts as a baseline.  I added everything platform related race, leaving weight alone.  I then re-QR'ed them all taking note of their weaknesses.  I was suprised by Sagaris the most.  I added a Blooze Toon 54.5% and adjusted the Alignment to the F-dog baseline.  I left as much alone as I could to quantify the changes.

Tuscan S A760
Road Atlant 2:  58.768
Sebring Short:  75.280
Tsukuba:  59.060
QR:  193.108
Improvement:  1.541

Tuscan R A840
Road Atlanta:  57.798
Sebring Short:  74.682
Tsukuba:  58.089
QR:  190.569
Improvement:  0.747

Sagaris A815
Road Atlanta:  58.129
Sebring Short:  74.415
Tsukuba:  58.118
QR:  190.662
Improvement:  3.619

I didn't do anything with the Speed 12 yet as it is not the main focus of a progression through the classes.  As I get to the end of S-class with these cars I'll move on to the 12 as a grand finale.  As I suspected the stock trans in the Sagaris was a severe performance detractor and based on the QR improvement I believe I was right.  The Tuscan S is in desperate need of brakes.  It is well balanced but it won't stop for anything.  I lose a ton of time stopping early for turns.  I get the impression that I am Old Schooling every turn.  The Tuscan R is a rocket.  A nice dose of rear grip could go a long way to improving this car.  Not much PI room for improvement though.  It had the lowest improvement from the adjustability and I belive its gonna take parts to fix the flaws in this one.  Still a fast car but not as stable as the others.  The Sagaris was definately the hands down winner of this.  Over 3 seconds of QR improvement and it handles so well.  Even at the lowest PI is is stuck to the track.  The front is well planted and the rear end is very controllable when it does step out (and it will step out).  The 20 extra hp over the S is very noticable and it seems like a good HP balance for the cars.  450 (from the R) is a bit much without improved tires.

Next step is to max out A class with all of them and see what more upgrades can do to speed this bunch up a tick.  After that I should have a better understanding of where each car is destined to go.  Initially I think the S will stay in A class (assuming the Sagaris isn't a sleeper), The R will most likely end up in S due to its high PI, and the Sagaris will be the one that may pull double duty.  I already have on in S but I won't be using it for this test.  All 3 cars are new for this specifically.  Only the S has been raced in the factory spec races.  More to come as I find a little more time.

[Spiny Anteater]

It is a sad story that bears repeating.  A fairly small bunch of car enthusiasts helped kill the car company they were trying to support.  Not buying the newer models of a largley hand built car hurts the ENTIRE company.  I assure you the workers literally saw the assembly line slowing down.  Now why would that happen witha billionaire at the helm and a huge following.  Because the buying public didn't support the brand through a transition.  They cried enough to Parliment but I doubt the country would step in and purchase the brand, its not Germany you know.  Dwindling sales ultimately flipped the switch, plain and simple.  The Sagaris is the last production model and there are rumered to be several unfinished chassis' in the plant even still.  I'd buy one, in any state of build. 

I'm not sure that's entirely the case. Up until about 5 years agao, a new TVR in Britain would give you a helluva lot of performance for your money, and that attracted enough buyers to keep the company afloat. The thing is that it's relatively easy to stick a huge lump of an engine in a lightweight chassis and produce a cheap performance car. Unfortunately though, TVR fell into the trap of adding more equipment and as a consequence the prices went up. Suddenly, the market your cars were selling to can no longer afford your cars, so you need to find new buyers. What happened in Britain was that those new buyers could buy a TVR, with all the well-know quality issues, or for similar money they could buy a 911. No prizes for guessing what the new target customer went for. Meanwhile, the existing customer base had to start looking around for other cars in their price range. It's beginning to look as if Noble is starting to fall into the same trap (although their cars are still selling) - hopefully they can avoid it.

Going back to the quality issues, the reputation with TVR's is that bits fall off them and on a wet day you'd better wear wellington boots because after a brief drive you'll have a lake inside. I've known two people while they owned TVR's. The first one had it for 10 days before he pulled out of a junction, put his foot down and ended up facing the wrong way as he was T-boned by a Ford Transit! The second one was a farmer who used it almost every day for the 4 years he owned it, which meant every day it had to make a trip down a rough farm track - not exactly TVR territory. Despite the infamous quality issues, not a thing went wrong with it all the time he had it. I suspect he had the only properly screwed together TVR in history

[TheTechnobear]

I love TVRs a friend of mine had the griffiths and the noise it made was fannntastic!

but, i was put of them when i was in London:
a neighbour had one kept in the garage outside our house.
every sunday, he would go off driving (you couldnt miss him leaving due to the noise )
- sadly, in evening, he would return with the thing on the back of a tow truck, obviously just had broken down again!
no joke, weekend after weekend, the thing would have died on him ... the unreliability of them was infamous

[Blooze]

Well, I'm trying, I really, really am.  I have built out a Sagaris in A for that one regional event.  It seems alright...    I mean, it has the same all tensed up spooky business that driving the A class Z06 gets you.  I am afraid I will never be much of an RWD fan as far as this game goes.

I was herding the thing around to a rather pedestrian 39.292 on MV2 and envying my ghost for the TK Subaru he was driving every time he went roaring past me on each lap...

Well, I am off to do the British Race while my blood pressure is still within shouting distance...

  $