Author Topic: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see  (Read 1040 times)

Hellisan

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The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« on: July 03, 2010, 03:42:51 AM »
Were I the designer for Forza 4.... I think I'd definitely take this thing in a new direction.  What about you guys?  Does the menu system as implemented now "work" for you?  I think it's functional but just very bland, and more than that, played out.  Arguably, the menu setup and overall career mode has gotten LESS interesting with time when you look at the mainstream car sim games for the big systems.

My vision (as it were...) would be to change it up making it less linear.  In career mode, everybody no matter the rank would have access to the dealerships and the basic upgrades offered there.  However, depending on what type of car you choose to start out with, and the subsequent car choices you make... You would meet different characters and get access to other garages and tuners that could do above and beyond the dealerships.  However, some luck would play into it.  I'd like to see a similar setup to this year in terms of the "driver level" but I'd make it "career mode level" and give people increases for tuning and hot lapping as well (though way smaller increases than racing...)  Also, I'd have the driver level go to 100 and increasingly get much harder to increase as you get past 50; I know, it already did that, but continue from 50 to 100 if you get my drift.   People would not be able to get to the max driver level in anything less than 3 months the way I'd set it up.

So basically... Until you got to driver level 100 you would not have access to every single part and upgrade available to each car.  It would become more involved than simply "slap every upgrade on the car" - You might do that, then later on find many additional options available for that car that got unlocked.

I dunno... I feel that almost anything different would be good at this point.  Maybe I'm in the minority here.

And I'd really, really like to see the return of various brands of each tire type.  That really added a lot for me in Forza 2 compared to Forza 3, I had my favorites in each class it seemed like.

Another topic... If at all possible... I would implement a system that would let the driver adjust the position of the driver's head a certain percentage (seat up/down, forward/back) for every car and save it.

PS... Am I the only one that uses the cockpit view?  I can't imagine not using it, I mean... name me one breakthrough development in the game from FM2 to FM3 besides that!?    Rewind? LMAO
« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 03:57:16 AM by Hellisan »

Blooze

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2010, 06:04:34 AM »
All I have to say is please, Please, PLEASE do not start a "Cars I want to see in Forza IV" thread.

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Hellisan

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2010, 03:49:31 PM »
LOL... Taboo topic around here?  Sorry if I've struck a nerve.  No I wasn't gonna post something like that.   ;D

Blooze

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2010, 07:40:19 AM »
Not Taboo... this room says talk about anything and I like to pretty much honor that.  I don't what to give off the impression that "This is my ball..."  So like I said, nothing is Taboo.  However, I do get to have an opinion, just like everybody else.

At one time I was a Monitor over on the Daught GNet, I had pinned threads and was running a daily Bench Racing thread.  I dumped all that and moved it here primarily to get away from the following...
  • the Wish Lisht threads
  • the I hate Micro$oft threads.
  • the Tune My Car for me threads

When these threads are delivered with a sense of entitlement, then I can't tolerate them.

However, we do have a few threads along those lines with out the "entitlement".  In fact, I even participate in a few of them.  But for the most part, I, me - personally, don't care to see them.  The Daught GNet is plumb full of them, let them stay there - in fact, it makes sense for them to stay there - the Turn Ten Devs have a chance to see them over there.  I doubt a Dev ever darkens our door.

So, when I saw the title of this thread my initial thought was, "Oh Gawd, what fresh hell is this?"  and "...could a car list be far behind?"

So - hopefully having dispensed with the "Taboo" issue, I have a few thoughts on the OP.

I think the Forza III menu is just fine.  It is the best of all the Forzas and I hope they stay with it, especially the "jump" key to the main menu.  I wish they had provided it in the Hot Lap and Multiplayer extensions as well.  As my ole Gran-pappy used to say on occassion, "Menus is menus, even if they're on a cow."  They are a navigation tool - the quicker they work the better.  The way to make them work quick is to provide an input buffer and minimize the display.  Text is just fine with me.

I think the most simple approach to providing a leveling affect to the game would be to provide tuning capabilities to lessor parts.  I think the idea that you have to buy the super race suspension in order to set the Toe on your front end is nonsense.  As is having to buy a race transmission to be able to change your gear set or rear end ratio.  Hell, a lot of that stuff can be done with a simple trip to a junk yard and a couple hour in the driveway.  Lets face it, the roate list of upgrades, the "magic 7" is bought automatically for its tuning capabilities.

I think improved performance is sufficient reward for tuning your car.  That is all you get in the real world.  Of course, there is a penalty for tuning your car badly, or there should be.  I like the idea that putting goofy gears on your car can blow up your engine.  I wish there was more of that.

I would like to see them go ahead and offer a "Balast" improvement and that they would quit trying to hide it in the Spring Bias.

One of the changes I would most like to see is to provide the ability to have more than one input device assiciated with a profile - a wheel and a controller.  It makes sense in that the paint shop and the camera are controller specific in so many of their operations.  For the life of me I can see it as nothing more than a simple decision in the low level event handler.  The code is already there...

Input from Device #?
  - is there a profile #?
    - yes? send it to #?.
    - no? dump it.

My change would be simply...

Input from Device #?
  - is there a profile #?
    - yes? send it to #?.
    - no? send it to #1.

Why they haven't provided that capability is beyond me.  I would love to debate it with an XBox programmer.  He would probably say, "the event handlers are programmed into the hardware" to which I would respond "bullsh*t, the decision to go split screen is not programmed into the hardware, and where you put that decision is where you make the choice I am speaking of."

...and he'd have some answer and I'd respond and we'd go round and round, but I betcha I would win...

Here's an idea for the Career...

This is real life too...  provide a Cost of Doing business.  Transportation and lodging.  It costs as much if not more than the car, I betcha.  When you start out, you only have so much money.  All you can do is drive your racer to the local test track (The Snakes), pull the race tires and tool box out of the trunk and back seat and then get after it.  If you in 4th you break even, otherwise you lose an increasing amount of the travel expenses.  See, you can go broke racing badly, just like in real life.  Lose all your money?  Then you have to borrow some and the bank gets a percentage of your winnings.  Lose it all again?  You got to start over.

You only get to get into bigger, better races after you have accumulated a certain amount in your bank account and can buy an 18 wheel hauler.  Now you can race higher paying races on the continent you have selected (regions).  One caveat, if your bank account gets below a certain amount, you lose your hauler, and you are back to the snakes until you earn enough to buy the hauler back.

Once you earn enough money in your region and can afford it, you get to buy a plane, and boy they are expensive.  Now you are racing for the big money in all regions.  The Whole World baby...  But same deal, you have to maintain a certain level or you lose your plane, and its back to the 18 wheeler and home turf.\

The AI would also get stiffer as the ability to travel went up...

I'd like to see that.

How about this...  the registered tuner gets a percentage of all the money won while his tune is in place.  That software is more or less already there with the Storefront and Auction House.

But, you still want to leave a simple out to the Noobs and Goofs... else you won't sell the thing to anybody but idiots like me...

I'm glad I'm retired.  I hate having to make compromise decisions.  I'd rather sit at home and bitch about the compromise decisions that you made.

;D $
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 07:54:55 PM by Blooze »
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Blooze

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2010, 05:05:18 AM »
i hope i din't kill this... it wasn't my intention.   :-[
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Hellisan

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2010, 02:12:39 AM »
To me, it's only natural to play something and wistfully think how it could be better.  And that's why I guess I do like talking about it a little bit now and again.  I'm taking some shots around the forum now though, thanks barumba :D

My other game is NCAA football (that sounds like a bumper sticker) and fortunately I've had a little more pull and visibility in that arena over the years.  myself and other people talked for years about wanting certain things, thinking we'd never see them...

- the ability to have online dynasties against other people
- the ability to have all your stats online and write stories about your team if you're geeky enough... stuff like that.

And suddenly we're starting to see them all at once.  Not that any one person had more to do with it than anybody else, but it's nonetheless good to see that stuff coming to fruition.

But yeah the T10 guys have proven unequivocally they don't care what anybody else wants in the game.  Back slaps all around on the hoppers guys...

I had no idea about the controller/wheel thing. Yeah that seems like an obvious need.

With the career mode, I really like where you are going with that.  But I still say that if you implemented all those things and I'm still clicking through a white menu that says "buy hauler" and then now I have access to other races and other parts of the country... SNOOOOOOOZE.  I'd like some visual representation of my garage and my "stuff" in the game.

I think the biggest disappointment with Forza 3 is the lack of money for the bigger races.  I'd like to see them get that right next time which you alluded to.  And screw their "economy."  they can shove that you-know-where.  For those of us who have jobs, don't glitch, and don't buy credits on Ebay, we simply cannot afford to buy certain things in the game.  And god forbid I want an S204 because that ain't gonna happen period due to the glitchers.  I can make around $250K a night racing if I'm not too busy that week.  That's what, 40+ nights in a row if I want to buy an $11 million Ferrari?  

who ARE these morons?  What if Halo made you play 40 nights in a row to get a good gun?

Sorry if any of that sounded entitled.  lol.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 02:15:26 AM by Hellisan »

Drift2XL

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2010, 03:10:21 PM »
Me and Reno and a couple more from our other site had a discussion about the hoppers the other night. We kind of got the feeling that it was a Microsoft decision. It was hoppers or no servers. And they want their server space.

As far as career mode. Yeah you could get more in depth as far as a career. But then you're also talking about not casual gamers. You have to script in order to really involve someone in a story. And racing has no script.

The career is what it is, the easiest way to make money from racing. But with people leaving Drivatards running enduros 24/7. It can become a little more skewed to a higher money level than the driving only guys, like you and me, can have.

The only way I have a shot at the unicorns is to join in on one of the Turn 10 community events. Whether Game with the Devs or hot lap challenge, I just don't feel like playing their game for the peanut. I probably wouldn't play too nice with some of the decision makers. And really let them know the what I feel are shortcomings to the game.

Have you heard of the 15psi cheat in the hoppers? Seriously.
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Hellisan

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 08:48:11 PM »
Nope... Ugh

Drift2XL

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2010, 03:57:07 PM »
For a not simulation room and RWD cars only.

If you lower rear tire pressures to lowest setting (15psi), it will always hook up. No rear spoiler needed for anything. And it still handles surprisingly well. It doesn't work for sim mode. I've beaten Detrick because he didn't load the "normal" tune a couple of times. he he.

And hot lap is not a full sim mode. So take the leaderboards with a grain of salt.
There are only three true sports
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Everything else are children's games that men play
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Blooze

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2010, 06:40:19 PM »
What blows me away is how does someone find that out?

I guess it is like the first guy to try to eat a chicken egg...

"Ya see that chicken over there?"

"Yeah?"

"Well, I'm gonna eat the next thing that comes out his ass..."

I mean, who's running around with 15 psi set for any back tire?

It befuddles me, it surely does...

Oh, and before I forget.  I got an MS wheel last week and it has the "Turn of Controller"  menu item just like the controller does.  So, I can swap between the controller and the wheel just by shutting the one down and then starting the other up.  Simple as that.  That wasn't available to me with the Logitec Wheel - they didn't have that menu choice.

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barumba

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2010, 07:26:58 PM »
Wheel controls. I have the wip-de-do fanatec wheel. Hold the Xbox button for 3 seconds, gives you the options, to turn off the controller, or turn off the consul. So, like yourself, if it is time to paint, I just turn off the controller (in this case the wheel), then when prompted to reconnect, I grab the controller, connect with it, do my stuff.  Then when done painting, wash, rinse, repeat. Connect back with the wheel.
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Drift2XL

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2010, 04:56:06 PM »
It was a what the hey by one of the PPR tuners. He was literally fooling around with a car he could not get to hook up. Frustrated, he just slammed the rear tire pressure all the way down. Took it out in hot lap and it worked. It worked so well he went back and took off the aero. And it still worked.

Thus the 15 psi rule was born.

Its not really well known but it does work. And it pretty much was within PPR/EXOR until now. But being that there's only around 1000 people in the hoppers on any given weekend night, much less week night, not much of a loss.
There are only three true sports
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Everything else are children's games that men play
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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2010, 05:14:24 PM »
Whoa, I hadn't heard that lol.  Doubt I'll use it either, though I do drop pressures down to 24lbs or so in the rear when drag racing.

Blooze

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2010, 05:31:40 PM »
Yeah, that sounds like one of those things that could get your times wiped.  I imagine the tire pressure is stored with the other data that goes with a time.

It makes one wonder if it is an anomally with the values or a back door put in by a developer for testing...

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Re: The Forza Menu system and various changes I'd like to see
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2010, 07:55:16 PM »
I highly doubt they'll do much wiping at this point in time unless something truly disastrous pops up.  It seems like most dev. time is going towards 4/Kinect.  Hoppers haven't changed in ages and there was supposed to be weekly change happening there.