Chasing Blooze - the cars (F)

[Spiny Anteater]

Rather than clogging up the "Let's chase Blooze" thread, I figured I would give a rundown of the cars being run in this thread. Nothing too deep, just a brief rundown of the how the cars went.

First up I got the Drag events out of the way, principally because they don't require much skill so allow you to adjust to a new class if you run them first. And also because I wanted to get them out of the way because, as someone (may have been Tonka) said a while back, they are indeed a drag.

The car was the PT Cruiser. I'm trying to avoid drivetrain swaps unless I have lots and lots of power in a FWD (and maybe if I end up with extreme power in an RWD?) so this one had an immediate disadvantage getting off the line. However, by judicious use of some extreme settings (very stiff springs, max rear bump and front rebound, 100% accel diff) I was able to get some respectable times. Not fast (approx. 30% on the leaderboard), but better than I expected for an FWD. It even managed to beat Blooze's Fiesta

Next up were the Ovals, and the randomiser was kind to me - BMW X5. Not up with the Supra's and Familia's, but pretty quick nonetheless. It couldn't keep up with my Mk2 Golf times from career on the short ovals, but won out on the long ones where the weight became less of a disadvantage.

And then came the careers. The C4 is meant to be one the power car out of the starting 7, but it did ok around Amalfi. Granted, the times are not that special (2% forwards, 4% on reverse), but they are respectable and the car felt nicely planted. This one ran very close to Blooze's time, just edging ahead when the two tracks are combined. Definitely a keeper this one.

[Blooze]

Very good!

I too have found the Citroen C4 to be a keeper - in F, and in classes further up.  Although the Civic VTi nosed it out on most tracks, it did just that... nosed it out.  I imagine the C4 could reclaim some of those tracks were I to give it a chance.

Just an FYI - from the view point of "Chasing Blooze", I am not messing with the Drags or the Ovals - I did 'em and then consigned their sheets to the archive along with X Class stuff.

The C4 is meant to be one of the power car out of the starting 7

How did you come up with the 7 and what are your plans for them?

$

[Spiny Anteater]

The C4 is meant to be one of the power car out of the starting 7

How did you come up with the 7 and what are your plans for them?

$

Drag and Ovals are dull I have to agree. But the Benchmark Ring comes under "Circuit" rather than "Oval" so that's why I thought you might be running it.

As for the bit above, by "Starting 7" I meant the 7 cars you get to choose from when you first start the game. It's nothing to do with the random car thing - for that I have a choice of all 41 F Class cars

Incidentally, first impressions are that the X5 is not good on the Benchmark tracks (yes, it came up again! )

[Spiny Anteater]

A bit of a mixed bag this week, but here goes.

Benchmark - I ended up getting the BMW X5 for this one (again). Not really a brilliant showing since i ended up around the 25-30% mark overall on these. Although part of that is down to the fact that very few people have run these tracks. It's generally the case that where you have a track which comes up in career you can get a much lower percentage than where it is only run by the dedicated hotlappers, who are generally better drivers in better cars. As a result it's much harder to get a blue (top 1%), yellow (1-5%) or even orange (5-10%) on tracks such as these. Overall, the BMW edged out Blooze's target Civic by about 15 seconds, although most of that was due to the longer tracks where I could use the X5's power.

Camino - Bonus here as the randomiser gave me the Mark 2 Golf. Running it in FWD mode, it showed the AWD advantage in the game. Early in the game before this became obvious, I had built up a 4WD Golf for the Speedways - lots of power but not very good handling. Even so, that was quicker around Camino Full than the FWD version which was tuned specifically for this track. However, the Golf is still a good car and set my best time at every track in this environment.

Catalunya - Running the Aveo here meant I had very little power in any of the builds. However, it set a good top 1% time on the GP track despite only having 111bhp and was my quickest car on the School track too, despite not being all that impressive. At National though, I'd already run the aforementioned 4WD Golf, and the Aveo couldn't quite match that, even on a handling track like this.

Iberian - This should have been so wrong. The randomiser gave me the 1979 Camaro which isn't a car I would have gone for on a tight track such as this. But, it surprised me setting some really good times around here even getting top 1% times on both Mini tracks (including beating the Rabbit at one) and one of the Short tracks. Don't ask me why, but this car builds up into a really nice, placeable grip build in F.

That's the summary for last week, now I'm off to Japan to run the mountain.

[Blooze]

I like your use of colours!  I have such a scheme as well...

Top 100 - Bold Black over Gold
Top 500  - Bold Pink over White
Top 1000 - Bold Royal Blue over White
Top Time - Bold Teal over White

Times that are not personal bests are just text...

I was wonderin' if you use the PC to check times much, and if so, have you come up with a quicky method for determining a time's percentage?  I like the idea of using the Percentage but hesitate doing so because of the extra work involved with using the Web Site to update my time sheets - which I do alot, specially when I am stuck off in a private race.

$

[Spiny Anteater]

Glad to see someone else using a similar scheme for classifying the cars. I think you need to get a much better time (on most tracks) on your to get a car noted than you do on mine - guess you're shooting higher than me.

I must admit that my recording spreadsheet is incredibly basic. The columns show the cars, the rows the tracks, and I just fill the cell with the requisite colour. I don't even record the times! It's really just a simple sheet which I can refer to for online races to see which of my cars run well where. Of course, it also has the benefit of indicating on which tree the lowest hanging fruit lives.

I rarely use the PC to check times, mainly because as you say it takes so long to load up the leaderboards. Instead, my procedure is:

1. Note down current fastest car on a track and add to paper sheet.
2. Take random car, tune then go to private race against 7 AI for approx 10 minutes or 5 laps, whichever is longer.
3. Once the race is done, run the reverse version of the track if applicable.
4. Back out to the leaderboard, not position and calculate percentage by hand. If the random car wasn't fastest, interpolate from my friends list to estimate position (much quicker than scrolling down potentially 1000's of places on the leaderboard), then calculate the percentage from there.
5. Colour in applicable cell on paper copy, and add to sheet at a later date.

I'll try uploading the sheet tomorrow (now attached) so you can see what it looks like. However, prepare to be disappointed - it takes the KISS principle to the limit

Incidentally, unless the on-screen percentage is obviously within a class (e.g. 8%), I calculate it by hand as Forza tends to round off to the nearest %. For example, 5% can be anywhere between 4.5% and 5.5% which spreads across two classes on my sheet.

[Spiny Anteater]

Now I've finished, here's a quick summary of how the F class cars performed.

Citroen C4 (Amalfi and Positano) - As said above, this went extremely well around the twisty to the extent that in one or two places it is the fastest car which is definitely FWD (i.e. isn't RWD or doesn't have an AWD swap available). The fact that most of the times I got with it are outside the top 5% is more a reflection of the small numbers of people who have run these tracks than the car's ability.

Chrysler PT Cruiser (Drag and Tsukuba) - Suprisingly good for a FWD as a drag car due to the wide power band I presume. But I was disappointed in it at Tsukuba. Yes it got into the top 5% at both ribbons, but it didn't beat the general-tune Yaris by as much as I would have expected.

BMW X5 (Speedways, Benchmark and Mugello) - I expected this to be bad, and while it wasn't terrible it didn't exactly set the world alight. Top 10% at most ovals, even a top 10% at Mugello Club. But it only really wins on acceleration. The handling is poor and while top speed is good (hence the decent oval performance), it's not class leading.

VW Golf Mk2 (Camino) - In AWD form this is definitely the leaderboard car of F Class. But in FWD guise it still set some pretty good times getting 3 top 1%'s and another 3 top 5%'s on what are traditionally more power biased tracks. A nice car to drive, if a little obvious.

Chevy Aveo (Catalunya) - Despite getting a top 1% time at the GP course and to 5%'s at the others, I was a little disappointed in this car. Despite having next to no power it wasn't too bad on the straights, just didn't quite have the grip levels of the top cars.

Chevy Camaro 1979 (Iberian) - I wasn't expecting much from this car/track combination, so was very pleasantly surprised to see 3 top 1%'s out of the 6 tracks. I've also run it online where it can just about keep up with the more usual hot hatches around here. Oddly for a muscle car, online racing has shown that this car has the advantage in the corners but loses out badly under acceleration. If I end up with it in a higher class, I think I'll have to look at taking some weight out next.

Nissan Versa (Kaido and Laguna) - This was an excellent car coming down the hill where FWD was less of an issue and the immense grip meant that I could carry lots of speed through the corners. Uphill, it struggled more, both in getting the power down and on the straights where the power just wasn't there. Overall, this lost out to Blooze's Fiesta around here, but I think that is more testament to Blooze than criticism of this car. Around Laguna it wasn't so happy - again I think it was the power deficit which caused issues here, although top 5% isn't too bad.

Mazda MX-5 (Ladera) - Probably the star car of my F Class runs. I don't particularly like Ladera, so for this car to get 5 top 1% times out of 6 tracks says volumes. It's also great fun to drive so I highly recommend this to anyone (damn, did I just endorse Warped BCG? )

Mazda Familia (Le Mans) - A car which is all over the oval leaderboards in F, and having run this I can see why. Acceleration is rubbish, but it has a very good top end speed (and I could see this being higher still if I'd done an RWD swap and used the extra PI for more power). The base PI is pretty close to 200 so you're limited in what you can do, but the stock gearing is sensible enough that you can keep the stock box and concentrate on the handling.

Ford Fiesta (Maple Valley and Suzuka) - In AWD form, this is one of the best cars to have for the twisty tracks. But, I ran it in FWD form on two of the most flowing tracks in the game. The car did good though ending up around the 1% mark on all tracks with 3 times being under the magic 1% cutoff. It might not have lots of top end speed, but if the suspension is tuned to make the oversteer manageable it can carry so much speed through corners that this becomes less of an issue, even at Maple Valley.

Pontiac Trans Am 1987 (Motegi) - What have Turn 10 done to the muscle cars This car should have been tailor made for Motegi, what with the longish straights and tight corners demanding good acceleration. Instead it lumbered around like a bear with a hangover, and nothing I did could get a good performance out of it. OK, the times were all top 5% but apart from at the West track it lost out to other non-specialised cars.

Honda Del Sol (Nuerburgring Nordschleife) - Not a lot of power in this one, but it did have a decent top end and good grip. Once I got it turning in nicely, the times weren't too bad being in the 5-10% range for the P2P's (not bad for an FWD). It even managed a top 1% for the full track. Basically, it's a good car which pulled out a surprising performance on a track I didn't expect to suit it.

Hyundai Tuscani (Nuerburgring GP) - As opposed to this one. I expected it to go well due to the fact that the Tuscani has gone well for other people in other classes. But it just felt too heavy around here in F. The speed it carries through bends is ok, but compared to other cars you meet online it just doesn't pull strongly enough out of corners.

Ford Focus SVT (2003) (New York) - This wasn't up to much in FM2, but in FM3 it appears to be highly rated, and I can see why. With top 1% times on the new track, and top 5% on the old track it goes as well as it feels. This car is a genuine all-rounder which, although not excelling anywhere, combines good handling, acceleration and top speed.

Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA (Road America) - My heart sank when this combination came up. You need power for this track, and that is one thing this car doesn't have. But it did surprisingly well, the light weight helped under acceleration and through the corners and it ended up in the top 10%. Highly recommended.

Honda Fit (Road Atlanta) - In contrast this car disappointed me. I can only guess that it's the lack of torque which did it, but it just didn't click with the track. The fact that the Scion xD was quicker around the Club circuit says volumes really.

Mazda 2 (Sebring) - This one continues the theme of DLC cars being quicker than original ones. Even though you would expect it to really suffer at Sebring, the times were very good. Around the full circuit it blitzed the '87 Trans Am by a couple of seconds while also getting a top 1% time at the short version.

Toyota Yaris (Sedona) - Yet another combination which seems bad on paper. Yet the Yaris proved surprisingly adept around here as it carried enormous speed through the corners, even with this power build. The oval section obviously didn't help this car, but it came top 1% at 3 of the 4 tracks. This and the Corrado's performance suggest to me that with careful tuning and driving, it is possible for a 2WD to take the battle to a 4WD car in some places.

VW Corrado (Sidewinder) - No doubt most people seeing this on the leaderboards will assume it is another 4WD swap, but it's actually FWD. The percentages appear pretty unspectacular being above 10% for all tracks except Sidewinder I (1-5%). But that is almost certainly down to the low numbers running these tracks - in reality it ran between about 150-300th place here.

Porsche 914/6) (Silverstone) - I put as much power into this as I could, and it still felt overgripped and underpowered. It couldn't match the 4WD Golf (wish I'd never built that) around International, but in general I was quite pleased with the performance of this.

Lotus Elan (Sunset Peninsula) - Good for twisty tracks, but that wouldn't help here. However, it produced a decent amount of speed on the straight (about 125mph) and held a lot in the corners such that it was top 400 on a couple of tracks. Very pleased with how this one turned out.

 

[Blooze]

What a great report!  Thank you!

And here's a big tip of the hat to you for sticking to your guns.  If it were me I'm sure I would have come up with a "Best of Three" rule or something like that after a particularly distasteful outcome...

And then to out run me by almost 6 minutes using the cars that you did.  Though humbled mightily, I am proud to turn your text Blue!

PS: I just now noticed that you had attached your spreadsheet.  I like the simplicity of it and I imagine it can be easy to use in a research situation once the legend is second nature.

$

[Fit4aking]

Excellent write up Spiny.  I have had similar luck with a few of the cars and reading your experience just reinforced that I wasn't off pace with my choices.  I've got a long way to go to be done with F but running through all of the tracks with all of my cars is a bit different than your random car/track strategy.  Guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. 

After reading your write up on the Camaro I may have to go back and run it along with some of my other cars where I think it will shine.  I've had it up to B-class and I think that was just too high for what I was asking it to do.  However there may be room for it higher up if I rethink my build strategy.

I have an MX-5 that does well and I really like it but I haven't really given it a fair shake anywhere but Nurburgring GP and there I was slightly faster in the Blooze Civic.  Perhaps the supercharger wasn't the best choice for a car that handles so well out of the box but it needed a bit of oomph.

The 914/6 has been on my mind for a long long time and it is a grip monster. I had one and sold it due to getting kicked for using it, then shamed for trying to market it in the TM, and recently being snubbed for considering it for a tuning competition.  There was almost as much stigma attached to it as the Golf.  Really got under my skin so I've shelved the car.  I think it would be a fantastic car for many mid to longer tracks with the power build and it has the room to build it out for grip as well.

I could go crazy just building cars for F but I plan to get moving up the ranks here so I have to cut myself off eventually.  Thanks for all your hard work Spiny.

[Spiny Anteater]

I'm glad the write up found some interest I think a "best of 3" rule may have ended up counter-productive for me if I'm honest. For a start, I wouldn't have found out how grippy that Camaro was or how well light, low powered cars like the GTA and Elan can do on fast tracks. I would also have still ended up running the Honda Fit as I was expecting much more from that. Plus, I like the idea of running the whole gamut of cars - if that means I end up taking a pick-up around Kaido so be it (although the stock Saleen S331 is ultra-boring around there as the weight and gearing means it really struggles up the hill).

As for the spreadsheet, the idea is to have one per class so I can do a quick check to see what goes well where with my tunes. I wanted something I can look up very quickly (on paper) so I'm not holding up the lobby while I choose. Blue is an obvious go-to car, while red means avoid, maybe even try something else totally new? If I were to put times in it, it could quickly become hard see which are the cars to go for. At least, that's my excuse for the simplicity/laziness

I hadn't realised that there was such a stigma to the 914/6. I can only guess it's to do with the AWD swap as I've seen a few quick AWD's around. That swap has a lot to answer for as it's made quite a few cars morally unacceptable online - Celica, MR-S, Golf, Lexus IS350 to name but 4. And the pity is that I feel bad if I pull out my FWD Golf or Celica just because of their 4WD reputation. It sounds like the 914/6 has joined that club from what you're telling me.

[Blooze]

These posts are turning out to be a pretty good shopping reference.  I was looking about for an F car I haven't tried yet and it is pretty handy to come in here and see if you ran it, and if so, what you had to say about it.

In this case, I was wonderin' whether to trash the Yaris after I get done with the Spec races or give it a shot.  I may give it a shot...

$

[Spiny Anteater]

Glad to be of service

In the case of the Yaris, I've seen a few about, although most have been AWD. Only tried it in FWD myself, but it seems to have a good combination of handling and not too little power. Plus the low starting PI helps it out a lot.