The Best Car in the Game (BCG)

[Blooze]

Yes.  I know what it is and I own it.  Ha!!

I will provide proof - very little of it subjective, but facts, numbers and that sort of thing.

What are the traits of the best car in the game?  Boy can this turn into a discussion...  I think that the best car in the game should...

• Be Good Looking.  Not just from the paint job either, but inherently good looking.  Like when you catch a glimpse of it out of the corner of your eye, it will get your attention.  "What is that?"  Now you may dismiss it once you know what it is, but you looked.  You checked it out.  It turned your head.
• It should be affordable, and available.  Sure, the Ferrari 250 GTO is a great car, but there are damned few of them around, and when one becomes available it takes a rather substantial fortune to even entertain buying it.
• It should be fast - able to lay down times near the top of its class.
• It should be fun to drive.  You should look forward to taking on Kaido with it, not dread it.
• It should be tunable.  They're all tunable - I know.  But some take a tune better than others.  It should not be an endless nightmare bringing the car on line.
• It should be upgradable.  How far will it take you?  How soon is it out of it's depth?

Yeah, I know.  We could argue about the properties of the best car forever.  But I offer these as a starting place.

Now, without further ado, my nomination for Best Car in  the Game.

1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

Ta Da!

Good looking?  I think so.  They have always caught my eye.  Even before Forza entered (some would say "ruined") my life, I knew the Eclipse.  Only a need to be fiscally responsible as a working class family man has kept me from buying one.  But, if I were to go in search of a toy, I would consider one of these in a heart beat.

Affordable?  In the game, you can pick up one of these babies for a mere 4000 credits.  You have that to spend on a car after just a few races at the beginning of the game.  It is competitive in class completely stock.  Once you have this car in hand, you are pretty well in business.

Fast?  My plan is to offer up elapsed times - the QR, QR2, Targa, the Big Laps and RWT (tracks of the FIL) times to be exact.  How do they compare with the rest of the automotive world?

Another guage, fun to drive... this can be measured by its usage.  If it is a pain, you are not going to drive it much.  Money won and miles traveled, those figures are available.  So far, I have won 234 races with my Eclipse, won more the $2 Mil and driven in excess of 1500 miles.  And it is only about 25% there - much more is planned.

I will be working on a leaderboard of sorts, nothing like a table full of numbers to support an argument, I always say...  

Hmmm?  You don't think much of my Choice you say?

Okay, which car do you think is the best?

Prove it...

$

[Blooze]

Under Construction

Ranking Information

Quick Rank

Class	Atl II	Seb II	Tsukuba	QR
E	60.916	80.750	60.406	202.072
D	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000
C	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000
B	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000
A	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000
S	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000
R2	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000

Full Ranking

Class	Flow	Twist	Power	Total
E	60.916	80.750	60.406	202.072
D	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000
C	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000
B	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000
A	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000
S	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000
R2	00.000	00.000	00.000	00.000

Forza Targa



Production


$

[Spiny Anteater]

Funnily enough, I've just built out it's sister, the Talon and it ticks a few boxes. But I don't really like the way it looks and being 4WD it's not as much fun to drive for me as it could be if it was RWD so I can't go for that.

The Cobra wins hands down in the "Fun to Drive" category, looks great and I haven't got it out of it's depth in S Class, but unforutunately isn't that fast (as I will prove in the next few days for the Targa Forza, even if it did get 251st on the leaderboard on one of the Kaido ribbons). It's also not exactly cheap either.

I'm going through the MX-5 spec races in Career at the moment, and even in stock form that seems a great little car to the extent that it is getting top 1000 times in F Class. I suspect that it could be very, very good when built out, but not having done so it's not something I can comment on so this car is also ruled out.

The Aveo is competitive in E and F classes. And with 924bhp through the rear wheels in A Class it can compete with most stuff around Old Le Mans. But it's not exactly a pretty car.

So my choice will be the Nissan 370Z. Looks great, doesn't cost a fortune, lots of stuff you can do to it. It's also quick enough to set decent times in my B Class tune in RWD format, and for the (cheap ) drivetrain swappers in Forza it offers that option as well. So that is my nomination - just ticks all the boxes for me. Much more than that Eclipse thing

[Blooze]

The 370Z??!  Hmmm...  I got to go look that one up.   I've futzed with the Forza Z in S Class a little, but I wasn't overly impressed and the Forza R8 pretty well took it out.

That Miata Spec Race is some of the most fun I've had racing the AI in the game.  It took me 3 or 4 laps to negotiate all the traffic in most of the races.  Actually Racing.  I agree about the Miata... it has more grip stock than anyother F car that I've built.  It is on my round tuit list...

Getting the Forza wing usually improves the hell out of the Talon (and the Stealth).  At least it gets rid of the goofy thing that's all tucked up under the rear glass...

Eclipse thing...  heh - we'll see $

[chuckrateez]

   I was working my way through the leaderboards in D class with my trusty Aston DB5, but ran into some trouble with a few of the courses.  Reading what you wrote about the GSX made me think it might be worth a try.  I've not spent much time with AWD cars, except for the Alfa Brera, and while it's fun to drive, I haven't found just the right build for it.  

   I bought the GSX yesterday and built it up to D350, tuned it with F'dog's March calc and hit Kaido and Positano (my two trouble tracks for the Aston).  On each track (forward and reverse) on the first lap I passed my ghost.  I had a little problem with de-certing, so I had to run multiple laps, but I gained [edited to include actual times as I had them in a spreadsheet]: 17 (?!) seconds on Kaido, 10 on Kaido Reverse, 7 on Positano and 2 on Positano Reverse (opening lap on PR was the only clean one before I got frustrated and gave up, but I should be able to run at least 5 seconds faster).

   Thanks for the suggestion, Blooze.  If I can find 3 more minutes somewhere (and it's entirely possible the GSX can do that), I'll be right on your tail in D.  (I'm at 186 now.)  

   I think I should probably bring it to the Targa party as well.  


      Chuck

[Blooze]

Spiny, I got the toon and will be checking it out soon.  I thought I'd look 'er over then head directly to the Targa.  That seems to be as good a test as any lately.

I sent you my D Toon, will send the B Toon when I get Round Tuit (I haven't built it yet) ...

Chuck, you are welcome to a copy of my D toon as well, but you will have to accept my friend request

$

[Spiny Anteater]

Hope you like it Blooze - main problem with the 370Z is that it starts up in B Class so can't really be used in the lower classes (I don't know if the AWD swap will bring it down to C Class, and to be honest I'm not too fussed about finding out).

I'll give the Eclipse a run out once I have the car bought (it's a sort of game in a game for me that I want to get as many cars as possible below dealer price from the AH). Currently I'm aiming for one Targa run per week - I suspect this car may see an outing before too long But next week is reserved for the 370Z...

[Blooze]

I looked at the +a upgrade in my looking everything over phase - the car was already Pi-ed out to 500 and the swap knocked it down to 461 - so I don't think it will work that away.

I like the car.  I bought a black one - it has a nice menacing look to it with the body parts attached.   The toon works well, except the thing had a tendency to richochet off the stumble strips more than I liked.

Anyways, I drove it straight up your Toon on the Targa - the times are posted over there.  The poor bugger was a little Torque Challenged for Kaido, but I managed to post personal best times on the Ring and Positano with it.

I also ran the 7^th best time on the B Class QR - a 200.586 - not too bad since there's a lot of cars in B Class what with all the BT cars and such.

Then I tried my hand at tuning the beasty.  I wanted to reduce the impact of hitting the rumble strips so I put a 50/48.5 to it with 50% added to the ARB.  Everything else is pretty much the same.  I may have to add a bit of toe to the front, though.  Mine doesn't turn in as well as I would like.  Oh, and I had to goof with the small bits some 'cause I went and installed a set of Holeshot Holestars on it and they knocked the Pi up to 503...  

I had the boys over to B2 Engineering come up with a gear set for it.  You may want to give this a try.

Gears

• FD = 4.16
• 1-6= 2.68   1.94   1.54   1.27   1.06   0.88

This seemed to work better with the rather low tq/hp ratio.

So then I run the Targa with my build.  About the same.  It just hasn't the bottom end for Kaido, I am afraid.

One of the things I found about running the Max Aero builds is that it takes a little while to get used to how you have to treat the car to take advantage of the grip vs. the speed you lost.  I am off to stuff the bank account a tad by running the FIL and Big Laps with it.

I like the way it looks, I like the way it handles - but I don't know that it has it over the Eclipse for BCG...

$

[Spiny Anteater]

Blooze, I gave your Eclipse a little test run at Catalunya Nat last night. Got to hand it to you the car feels stable, much more stable than almost any of my tunes. But I did feel that the front end was just washing wide on some of the corners, both fast and slow - I guess that's the price you pay for stability. I also noticed that the front and rear tyres weren't heating up evenly. The fronts were running about 32psi warm, the rears were 31psi - I don't know if that was deliberate or not. But those were only minor issues - a more pressing one was the time.

My best time on the leaderboard at Cat Nat in D is 1:22.8xx in a Twingo, the Eclipse ran a 1:23.6xx so was almost a second off the pace (best recent D Class test car was the '02 Integra with 1:22.520 - remember that time!). So, I made a minor alteration to the tyre pressures so they ran 32.5-33psi front and rear, and slightly stiffened the rear ARBs. They weren't major changes so I didn't expect much in the way of improvements.

So imagine how surprised I was when I ran a 1:22.540 - as near as makes no difference as the time for the Integra. That much improvement didn't seem right just from the very minor changes I'd made, so I reran your tune. Turns out that the first set of times was obviously slowed by my adapting across from the FWD Integra as I took your tune around in a 1:22.696.

You're right. The Eclipse is a good car, but it still can't match the Integra around here. On a more open track I think it would beat it but then other cars would come into play which might beat the Eclipse. So it's definitely one which will be used, but it's not my BCG

I'll send the tune over for you tonight. To be honest, I expect the reason for the extra speed with my revisions is more to do with the car being set up to suit me than anything else. I suspect you'll end up preferring yours.

[Blooze]

I like the way it looks, I like the way it handles - but I don't know that it has it over the Eclipse for BCG...

So it's definitely one which will be used, but it's not my BCG

LMAO - you just know it is going to go this way.  It will be fun a time progresses and we start gathering proof.  I need to get back on the tables for tracking the data...

Thanks for the report.  I remember thinking as I was test driving the Toon, Spiny and BBQ will think this is tight...

$

[chuckrateez]

Blooze,

   I finally figured out how to accept your friend request,     So it's there if you want to gift me your toon.

Feuerdog,

   I also sent you a friend request.  I'll bide my time, but eventually I'd love to get you to work on one of my cars with your newest version of your calc.

   Targa:  I've been running the D350 Mitsu GSX with a Feuerdog March tune on it, and I'm knocking good bits of time off.  I'm still behind Blooze's times, but I'll keep plugging away.  It's a great car, and I'm learning how hard I can push it (no pun intended).  Obviously, in the P2P the start puts it ahead of my FWD cars, but there are still areas where I'm learning how to get the most out of it.  And I'm loving every minute of it.   


      Chuck

[Spiny Anteater]

Just wondering Blooze - do you normally run with the auto box? Main reason for asking is that I ran the 370Z (with my gears rather than your altered ones) around Kaido yesterday and found that if you hang onto a gear right up to the red line it didn't struggle too bad. Now if you let it drop below 5000rpm there wasn't a lot there, but unlike the majority of my other cars I found I was happy using 1st gear in the tight corners.

Now from that review you'd think I'd set a good time around there right? Wrong - I was giving away approximately 2 seconds a stage to the Brera both up and down. I suspect that is mainly down to the drivetrain. Not only was I losing time off the line, but also I had to wait a while before I could really get on the power out of the slow corners, or at least it took longer to get on the power than it did with the 4WDs. I'll be interested to see how your tune copes next week.

[Blooze]

No Spiny, I use the wonder of wonders - the clutchless manual exclusiviously...  

I set the gears up to run within 90% of the Hp on either side of the Hp Peak.  Most of the time the revlimiter gets in the way of me going past the upper part.  In the higher gears, I may shift earlier if the torque is a tad peaky and I have more torque in the next gear - this is usually redlinish.

If I remember a-rightly (a condition that is up for grabs a lot lately, it seems) your gear set had big steps between the lower gears and and a sixth gear that was hard to peg out.

I tried to set it up so that there was less torque and a longer run in first gear (total gearing of 11.15 vs. 11.53) and a high, short operating range for the rest of the gears (more or less 6400-8000 rpm).  Final gearing of 3.66 vs. 3.47 got it to a terminal velocity of 161 fairly quickly.  Think pegged out in 6th at the line on Sunset Infield Club.  It ran the 1 mile drag in 33.684 with 150 mph.  I think the evenly spaced short bites in the middle gears is what helped the most - down shifting had less impact and upshifts stayed well into the power range.

I think that is what the logic was...  hell, its three or four days since I did that...  

$

[feuerdog]

Ah,...this explains why this car has reared it ugly head at the top of so many leaderboards.

As more of a driver than a racer I would probably weight my car more heavily into the aesthetics department than in performance, but only slightly. Just as there is a balance between thrilling and unstable, I would want my ultimate car to do many things well,.....and look good doing so.

An Eclipse?!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

I put a Porsche 930T on my storefront recently, new V7 tune and all, a special test release for the public.

I have not really attempted to use it on the leaderboards, but it does represent what I consider a runner for a personal BCG.

To each thier own.
Variety is the spice of life!

[Spiny Anteater]

I tried to set it up so that there was less torque and a longer run in first gear (total gearing of 11.15 vs. 11.53) and a high, short operating range for the rest of the gears (more or less 6400-8000 rpm).  Final gearing of 3.66 vs. 3.47 got it to a terminal velocity of 161 fairly quickly.  Think pegged out in 6th at the line on Sunset Infield Club.  It ran the 1 mile drag in 33.684 with 150 mph.  I think the evenly spaced short bites in the middle gears is what helped the most - down shifting had less impact and upshifts stayed well into the power range.

I think that is what the logic was...  hell, its three or four days since I did that...  

$

First off, the rationale behind my gearing. Basically, I was aiming to hit the TV at Benchmark Ring at approximately the peak power in 6th gear. That's why 6th is so high - the car will push 170mph even with the full aero. But it does take an awful long time getting there. The idea behind that is that the car can run absolutely anywhere - it is a proper all-round tune but that has entailed pretty big sacrifices. Tbh I hadn't noticed that your 1st gear was higher than mine, just that the higher gears were shorter.

I think you're right about the closer gears are helping you on Kaido (and to a lesser extent Positano). I found with my gearing I had to be extremely accurate in my gear changing - get the revs wrong and you lose time. Your set is much more forgiving (hence the auto question) and as you said allows you to maybe omit some gear changes.

Still, I've hijacked the Eclipse's thread for long enough