Author Topic: 69 Charger C425 Build  (Read 1533 times)

Blooze

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Re: 69 Charger C425 Build
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2010, 01:18:51 PM »
Blooze you'd go nuts looking at my most recent setups.  My spring/sway bias's rarely match up with one another.  Once I get everything baselined I have no problem knocking small adjustments off of the sway bars even if it takes them out of a certain bias relationship.  However my spring biases are always spot on a calculated value. 
The part that I was asking about is where he has the ARB at 50%  and he has springs that are front biased.

Most of the time I can deal with issues with miniscule changes to either the SWR or the Bias, and maybe something with a damper agent.  And I have made slight alterations to the ARB bias (R1 cars specially).  But due to my belief that the Spring Bias is treated as the Weight Bias for the car by the Physics Engine, I will almost never make a change such as that. 

That's why I asked about it.

:) $
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ORG63

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Re: 69 Charger C425 Build
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2010, 06:18:41 AM »
Blooze I can't really tell you why I do this or that. I am what I call a hit or miss tuner and all I can tell you is I know when I have stumbled on to something that works for me. I am never happy to leave things alone and the 50% ARB was just to see if it would work with the default spring settings and it was pretty good. I went back and started making changes to the ARB's up and down along with the springs and shocks, more HP less Tire/grip more weight and all it got me was a harder to drive car the was slower.
  Last night I went back over the build and changed a few things and ran then the car at the same 6 tracks testing 3 different tunes.  One tune was yours that you listed and was very good the other to were, well different but worked well for me. I will post all my findings later to day.

Don


The build
Motor stock
race brakes,shocks,springs,ARB's
race weight reduction
sport trans and driveshaft
race tires 245/255-17"
torq thrust wheels
forza rear wing/spoiler

375hp          4.5
480tq           5.2
2,962lbs       5.8
52%             5.9
                   5.2



  #1                                           #2                                           #3
Blooze tune                      my tune#2with 50/50 ARB                 my tune from hd3                            

-1.0/0.8                                     -1.0/0.8                                 -0.7/0.6
+0.1/0.0                                    +0.1/0.0                                +0.1/0.0
5.0                                            5.0                                        5.5
12/12                                        12/12                                     19.60/17.00
708.5/708.5                               700/680                                  700/550
7.7/6.8                                      7.7/6.8                                   7.7/6.8  carry over it worked...
7.8/7.5                                      7.8/7.5                                   7.0/7.0
4.0/4.0                                      4.0/4.0                                   3.2/3.5
aero145                                     145                                        145
48/102                                      48/102                                    48/102
diff 30/15                                   30/15                                      30/15

Bench Marks

     #1                                         #2                                           #3
   N/A                                       4.431                                        4.431
                                              12.329                                      12.329
                                              145.2                                        145.0
                                              122.9                                        120.2
                                              315.3                                        314.3
                                              1.10                                          1.10
                                              1.04                                          1.04                                      


the tracks
       #1                                          #2                                            #3
     R.A.S. 63.643                           63.799                                      63.505
Seb short 83.876                            84.190                                      83.674
Tsukuba   64.428                            64.134                                      64.352

total       211.947                          212.123                                     211.531

C class rwd races

Tsukuba short 4 laps
48.452/3:19.995                         48.205/3:19.774                          48.383/3:20.082

Suzuka east 3 laps
57.400/3:00.353                         57.621/3:01.014                          57.242/2:59.709

Motegi east 2 laps
1:39.364/3:25.425                    1:38.013/3:24.201                        1:38.215/3:24.512          


All three tunes work well for me each one has strong points.  I still can't tell you why setups work for me but they do. Sometimes I start with the FM3 setup tool based on Feuer dogs V5.1 calculator and adjust from there. Other times I will go to my notes and look for a car thats close in weight and Front axle weight % then use that setup as a starting point.  Blooze your setup/tune is good and I have it in my notes to try it on other cars.. I know how to tune I just don't know how to tell you how I do it.
   I learn a little something new every time I read posts on this site, and don't have much to say but join in every now and then for a Challenge to see where I stand, I am still lap traffic but having fun.


totals fixed thanks for pointing that out.

Don
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 06:25:44 PM by ORG63 »
Don
Cone bowling so you don't have to.

Blooze

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Re: 69 Charger C425 Build
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2010, 06:10:41 AM »
That's great work there Don, Thank You!

That pretty well shows us that there are about a zillion ways to go cat skinning with Forza and no one body has a handle on it all.

It does help to prove the point I was making in another thread - you can't go wrong with grip...

:) $

PS:  Don, I found a couple arithmetic errors in your QR's, they should be 211.947, 212.123, and 211.531, #1 - #3 respectively.

Once again, good job on this and thanks for posting.  :)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 06:14:23 AM by Blooze »
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feuerdog

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Re: 69 Charger C425 Build
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2010, 07:39:50 AM »
I've been tied up with real world, and other FM3 events lately, so my rebuild got sidelined for now,......but this:

.....you can't go wrong with grip...

...is starting to be a serious topic of build construction in recent times.


I was running with some Exor guys last night in my SCCA inspired 295-PI Miata, a grippy little lightweight build.
A few of them were running a class or so higher(350-PI) in more muscular cars and our lap times were easily comparible.
It wasn't a big deal, but it was enough to show me I needed to make a change in my default build processes, processees, procesii,.....whatever.

Blooze

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Re: 69 Charger C425 Build
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2010, 09:28:14 AM »
What do you 'spose happened to the Charger guy...

 ??? $
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barumba

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Re: 69 Charger C425 Build
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2010, 12:18:09 PM »
What do you 'spose happened to the Charger guy...

 ??? $

He probably fell down the rabbit hole, that picture in the middle of your calc. I think he's still wandering around in Wonderland. ::)
If you’re gonna jump then jump far, fly like a sky diver
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If you’re gonna be a driver then you better drive a race car

chargercrazy

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Re: 69 Charger C425 Build
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2010, 09:05:06 PM »
I'm still around.  I got distracted with lots of things going on.  I'll get back to FM3 soon I hope.  I haven't played Xbox in about a month.

Blooze

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Re: 69 Charger C425 Build
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2010, 11:11:44 PM »
Yeow!  Real Life... ;D

Good luck with everything.

:) $

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barumba

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Re: 69 Charger C425 Build
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2010, 06:53:31 PM »
I'm still around.  I got distracted with lots of things going on.  I'll get back to FM3 soon I hope.  I haven't played Xbox in about a month.
Chargercrazy, did you ever get to run your tankasaurus where and when you wanted. Did it meet with your expectations?
I tuned one to B500, loved how it handled. I know its out of the class you wanted, but, if you want I can gift you the tune, loads of fun. I called her my War Pig.
If you’re gonna jump then jump far, fly like a sky diver
If you’re gonna be singer then you better be rock star
If you’re gonna be a driver then you better drive a race car

barumba

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Re: 69 Charger C425 Build
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2010, 07:27:03 PM »
Never mind the gift. Here is the build and the tune of the B500 69 Charger R/T...

Here's the build...                           
                           
   year      1969                  
   make      Dodge                  
   model      Charger R/T                  
                           
   B   500   Front - RWD                  
   power      532   hp               
   torque      583   lb-ft               
   weight      3,526   lbs               
   front      55   %               
   displ      7.5   L               

   power rpm      6,100   RPM               
   torque rpm      3,800   RPM               
   redline rpm      7,000   RPM               

   lateral g's      1.100         

   front tires      255/40R18         
   rear tires                   255/40R18         

   UPGRADE SHOP               
                  
   Engine and Power               
   Air Filter                         Race   
   Intake Manifold and Throttle Body      Race   
   Fuel System            Race   
   Ignition                         Race   
   Exhaust                         Race   
   Camshaft                         Race   
   Valves                         Stock   
   Displacement            Race   
   Pistons and Compression         Race   
               -   
   Intercooler            -   
   Oil and Cooling            Race   
   Flywheel                         Stock   
   Restrictors            -   

   Platform and Handling               
   Brakes                         Race   
   Springs and Dampers         Race   
   Front Anti-roll Bars            Race   
   Rear Anti-roll Bars            Race   
   Chassis Reinforcement and Roll Cage      Street   
   Weight Reduction            Street   

   Drivetrain               
   Clutch                         Sport   
   Transmission            Race   
   Driveline                         Race   
   Differential            Race   

   Tires and Rims               
   Tire Compound            Race   
   Front Tire Width            Upgraded   
   Rear Tire Width            Upgraded   
   Front Rim Size            Upgraded   
   Rear Rim Size            Upgraded   
   Rim Style                                              Volk Racing         
                                                 TE37         

   Aero and Appearance               
   Front Bumper               
   Rear Wing            Forza   
   Rear Bumper               
   Side Skirts               
   Hood               

   Conversion               
   Engine Swap               
   Drivetrain Swap            -   
   Aspiration Conversion         -


And here is the tune...

1969 Dodge Charger R/T                              
TUNE SETUP                              
                              
TIRES                  SPRINGS            
                              
tire pressure      psi         springs         lb/in   
front         28.5         front         1,054.0   
rear         28.5         rear         719.5   
                              
GEARING                  DAMPING            
                              
forward gears               rebound stiffness            
final drive      4.35         front         8.3   
1st         2.61         rear         5.7   
2nd         1.73         bump stiffness            
3rd         1.29         front         6.0   
4th         1.03         rear         4.1   
5th         0.86                     
6th         0.74         BRAKING            
                              
ALIGNMENT               braking force      front   
                  balance         47%   
camber                  braking force            
front         -1.0   °      pressure         90%   
rear         -0.9   °                  
toe                  DIFFERENTIAL            
front         0.0   °                  
rear         -0.1   °      rear            
front caster               acceleration         50%   
angle         5.0   °      deceleration         25%   
                              
ANTI-ROLL BARS                              
                              
anti-roll bars                              
front         24.00                     
rear         16.00                     

      
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 07:38:34 PM by barumba »
If you’re gonna jump then jump far, fly like a sky diver
If you’re gonna be singer then you better be rock star
If you’re gonna be a driver then you better drive a race car