Blooze Tuning Sheet

[Blooze]

This is the place for questions about the Tuning Sheet.

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[Blooze]

Okay, what gives?   Ten of you have down loaded the Tooning Sheet and not a peep out of the bunch.

Are you using it?  Did you ransack it for some of the pieces (that's what I would do).  Or did you look it over and say, "Hell with that..."

Just Curious
Blooze

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[barumba]

 
You are right, Blooze. We should have at least said thanks, So, "THANKS".
At first look, this calc looked like a work of art. Like a Swiss Army Knife, multi purpose, a very powerful tool. Then, I tried to enter a few values, but could not figure what went where. This is not an intuitive calculator, instead looks to require a user's guide. I know some have said such guides when included in calcs is akin to a "Tuning for Dummies" guide. Well, that's what it takes for anyone unfamiliar with the spread sheet. The guide should include references to input and output cells, with description of what gets entered where, and where the values are found. This calc looks to be a "user preference" calc. That is, enter the basic stuff from the build, and any value you want (based on your personal choices) to get a calculated suspension tune.  Then change modifiers as you see fit based on testing to further fine tune. This calc does not seem to give a basic tune based on drive type, but is more user preference dependent. I may stand corrected, and would welcome that, but no matter. Without a road map, one unfamiliar with this calc could easily get lost.
I'd love to take it for a spin, but this addlepated old fart cannot figure out where to start.
Again, THANKS!
Cheers!

[Blooze]

You are right, and I did warn.  It is not intuitive, and like most software, is was not planned it "evolved".  There are devices there that were in play with Forza 1.

What I had hoped is those who were truely interested would devine what they could from the sheet and then come to this thread and ask specific questions about parts that vexed them particularly.

So, I have started a tutorial in the Archive thread.  It will take a few days to finish.  It will help if you have the Tooning Sheet open while you read it.  Again, if any questions arise, use this thread to pose them.

Since I make reference to it so much, I have added my Class Office workbook to the Archive.

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[barumba]

Thanks, again, Blooze. I will check back often to see progress. I do want to give this baby a try. (Still scratching head,  ).

[Silvo 1981]

I can follow most of what's going on and I'm certain it is all good work but there's a bit too much info on one sheet for my liking (no offense intended). I've saved it, had a good look at it and may well end up referring to it for some calculations further down the line.

Another thing I do not have the luxury of always running a laptop besides me while I play so there's too much info for me to keep track of on there. If I'm honest I still use a calculator, notebook and tables for any complex formula or repeated data I need. My GF is less likely to nick my calculator off me then she is the laptop.

[Open2nd]

Heh, I always ask then get carried away by whims and forget what I asked for in the beginning.  I don't think I plan to go the calc route personally.  I've tuned by hand since 1 and have yet to download or even create a spreadsheet for that matter and seem to be doing well enough with it.  I think that's a tradition I'll stick to for the time being just for my own mental well-being.  Heavily involved spreadsheets tend to confuse me easily.  What can I say, I've never really used the programs extensively..

[TheJohnNewton]

I downloaded it and gave it a quick look but you track way more sheet than I do    Once (if?) I understand the few items I do track I may go back to yours for more ideas.  For example, I pretty much run stock gears now or at most I'll change the FD.  If I ever get a round tuit and start trying to tune gears then I'll have a look at your gear stuff.

[PureStankonia]

Warning: this post will be scatterbrained.
Dig the spreadsheets.  I really like the leaderboard one because it allows me to view hotlap progression at any time even if box isn't fired up. Tuning sheet could probably help me figure out what buildouts I have for all my cars now that we can use the tuning setups area to hold the different builds instead of a whole different car like I did in fm1 and 2.  Incorporation of the tonka toy is gonna help as I'm a calc tuner.  Using this specific calc lets me keep the interactions between f and r correct.   Tuning sheet cells J3-5 through Q3-5 are base/current/change values right?  Formula bar say that cell 4 equals cell 3 in those columns but on the example it looks like base/current/change.  The section under the picture in the example makes me curious.  Can't figure out what the FR RR FB RB represents there and thus what the values are tied to.  Seems like measurable handling information so it's for sure useful.  Thanks for putting these up Blooze.  The tools available here are 2nd to none.

[Blooze]

@Silvo:  The sheet does have a lot of data - I have always had it in mind that it was a form of backup for my cars - once it is on the sheet, it doesn't matter what happens to it on the xBox - a few credits paid out and I am back in business.

@Silvo and Open2nd: Mercy, I wouldn't want to play the game without my computer and spreadsheets handy.  It is fully 50% of the game for me.

@TJN: Turn 10 kiwashing the Telemetry Stepping pretty well took the torque/shift point tables out of business.  However, some quick handy work can be made of the Gear Spreader in that section to build pretty tight gear sets.  To wit: I have most of them able to get within 3 or 4 mph of their topspeed on the Oval in the One Mile drag.

@Stank: Cool... a question!!

You are correct, rows 3, 4, and 5 of the columns J-R are base/current/delta.  Like I said in the beginning of the Tutorial to this thing, there are a lot of times where I use those silly Cell 1 = Cell 2 types of functions to facilitate data entry.  In this case, when first starting with the car, I fill in the cells in row 3, which in turn fills in row 4, and row 5 shows a 0 because the two cells are identical.  One reason for doing this is that the cells O4, P4, Q4 and R4 are live linked to my Stable sheet.  I want there to always be data in these cells.  Also, cell Q4, the current weight, is duped in cell C7 (the grayed out cell that contains the weight in the Tonka Toy.  I have it there to provide a bit of continuity in the Tonka tool.  I could have entered it twice, but that leads to error, I have found.  This way, I enter the current weight one time in cell Q4 and it automatically updates the Tonka Toy and my Stable data.  That is the method to that particular piece of madness.  

Row 3, the yellow one, is filled out when I first start with a car and it is unmodified.  When I am finished with it, I replace the functions in row 4 with the actual new values.  The functions in row 5 show me how much I improved, or not.

Now, the little tool under the picture.  Those are my infamous Damper Agents.  I may have mentioned them before.  There are 3 of them...

• Front Grip on Exit
• Transition Oversteer
• Transition Understeer

The headings are

• FR - Front Rebound
• RR - Rear Rebound
• FB - Front Bump
• RB - Rear Bump

I found out a long time ago that most of things that I tried to do with the dampers usually incorporated more than one damper.  But I kept forgetting what the combinations were so I worked this little tool up so I wouldn't have to remember anymore.

For example.  To change the grip in the front on corner exit I want to do something with the Front Rebound and the Rear Bump.  Normally I want to increase it.  If you enter a 1 in the yellow and pink cell M43, you will notice that 1s appear in cells N43 and R43, as well as the accumulator Totals at cells N47 and R47.  What ever value I put in the colorful M43 cell is duplicated in all those places.

Now examine the functions in the cells E22, E23, E24 and E25.  These are the cells that contain proposed changes to the dampers.  Each of these cells includes the appropriate Accumulator from the Damper Agents.

Typically for an FF or AWD car I will bump the Front Exit by 2 and the Trans Oversteer by 2.  Look at what happens to the Accumulator cells when 2s are entered in these two cells.  And if you examine the values in the damper cells you will notice that the Front Rebound is increased by 2, the Rear Rebound is increased by 2, and the Rear Bump is increased by 4.

If you are changing the values on the Citroen example and you notice the E cells turning Green, I will explain that later...

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[chargercrazy]

I am overwhelmed by the Tuning Sheet.

I am looking at the one for the '69 Charger R/T you posted in the other thread.  I think I kinda understand the ARB, Spring, and Damper Calcs, but what I really want to know about is the Gearing and Tire info.

Please walk me through the RPM and Tire data, basically columns V through AK.  I guess somehow based on tire data and RPM data, you calculate shift points and transmission gearing from that, but that's about all I can grasp.

Where do the inputs to cells W2, X2, Y2, Z2, AA2, AB2, and AC2 come from?

[Blooze]

LOL - man there is a lot of history to that largely un-used part of the sheet, made obsolete by Turn 10's crappy Dyno Charts and removing the Step Thru process from the Telemetry Screens.  Building a Dyno Chart can be done, but is a major pain in the butt and takes quite a bit of time.

Here's the original post that held the sheet - it may be helpful somewhat from a historical perspective.  It was posted nearly 3 years ago.  It seems longer than that...

Daught GNet Transmission Thread

Now for the easy part - your last question - those cells contain the FD ratio and the gear ratios 1-6.  They come from the Transmission Page in the game, and are initialized to the OEM Race Transmission Gear set.  Changes that are made to the gear set are recorded here so that the Torque Table will be accurate and current, and as record keeping.

now...

As you can see form the Charger Sheet, I still use pieces of it to work up transmissions today.  So for starters, I will walk you through the process that I use today, then if you are interested, we can discuss a method for getting an accurate Dyno Chart from Forza III.

The Tire Section:  Cells AF3, AG3, and AH3 contain the original tire size.  You can get this info either from the Car's  Info List (hit the X in My Cars menu area), or from the details in the Tire Width screens of the Upgrade Menu.  Filling this info out is part of my start up process.  I also fill  out the tire info in the Parts Configuration section and in the Tire Loading section at this time.

You will notice that cells AF2, AG2, and AH2 (the grey cells - current tire info) are updated immediately with the values from the OEM section (the Yellow cells).  This is a little device that I use all over the place.  The tire circumference is used in the velocity table (AF4:AK29), if the tire data is 0, then the whole table is nothing but zeros.  So, I force feed the OEM section to the live section of the tire calculation.  Later on, should I change any of that data, I overwrite the appropriate cells in the current section, and the yellow cells become nothing other than historic data.  Cells AI2 and AK2 are standard functions that can be found anywhere on the net - The Fudge factor is a constant that turns ft/min into mph.

The Velocity Table is filled out using the RPM, Total Gearing, and Tire Circumference in a standard formula that, once again, can be found anywhere on the net.

You can watch this whole thing work by changing the FD value (Cell W2).  

Gear Spreader: One thing that I use quite a bit now-a-days is the Gear Spreader found at AE31:AK35.  The OEM data is set up with the Race Tranny's default set and is rarely changed except for the R# cars, which have gear sets all their own.  The thing works by calculating the ratio of the distances between the gears against the distance between first gear and the last gear, usually six.  Then if first or sixth gear (cells X2 and AC2 respectively) are changed, new ratios for gears 2-5 are calculated using the same ratios as the default set.  (the new gears are calculated into cells AG35:AJ:35.  Should I desire to use the new gears, the new values are copied to the appropritate cells on the second row.

The whole area from V4 to AD40 is pretty much defunct without an accurate Dyno Chart.  I can still use some of the Torque Tables functionality for setting up a transmission without all of that data.  One of the things I want to know is what the torque is at the beginning of the top 10% of the Hp.  

We know two points on the Dyno Chart from data we can get from the Car List in My Cars.  The RPM for the Torque Peak, and the RPM for the HP Peak..  And we know the values of both of those peaks.  If you look at the table on the sheet that I gave you, you will  see those RPM values hilited, they are also recorded in cells M19:M22 (Note: the RPM for the Rev Limiter is found the old fashioned way, I bang on it until I can read it from the tach on the HUD.)

Entering a torque value in the range W4:W29 will calculate the torque at each gear at that particular RPM as well as calculate the Hp at that range (cells AD4:AD29)  As you can see I entered the Torque Peak, 491 at the RPM of the torque peak, 3600 (its actually 3500 so I rounded up to the nearest value rather than change the scale.)  Next I know the Hp is supposed to be 414 at 5200 RPM, so I guestimate torque values until I get reasonably close to the 414

Well hell - I just noticed that one, I didn't finish the table, but that it had an error in it (I'd used the stock Hp instead of the new value with the parts that I'd added.  So, here is what I just now did...

Note: As it turns out, my gear setting is still right on the money, tho my shift points may be a bit different - we'll get to all that.

So, I needed to guess in a torque value that gets close to 414 Hp.  That really isn't too hard to do using a binary search algorythm.  I came up with Torque = 419 and the resultant Hp is 414.85 (418.2 is closer but 419 is good enough).  Since I know that 90% of the Hp is 373 (see cell O6), I will need to extrapolate the torque values between 491 and 419 [ (491-419)/8=9 ] 9 is my decrement...  Now I have found that 373 Hp happens at around 4300 RPM.  That means that anywhere from 4300 RPM on up I am running at at least 90% of the available Hp.  I did a bit more extrapolation guessing crap by looking at the shape of the curves in the Upgrade Shack and came up with a pretty reasonable guess of 390 Hp and 325 ftlbs at the Rev Limiter.  Now I know that I can run anywhere from 4400 to 6400 RPM and still be in the high end of my Hp range and I will also be carrying a piss pot load of torque.  In fact operating at this level will lesson the tendency of the thing to spin its tires on a whim.

Here's the part that goes more on experience that anything I could calculate sort of.  I found a "shape" of a gearset not long ago (I have discussed this a number of times on the Bench lately...)  that I liked and worked especially well with torque an Hp curves that were realtively flat.  If you look at the Hp curve in the Upgrade Area, you will notice that it is relatively flat once the peak is reached at 5200 Hp.  Since determining that this engine has almost too much torque no matter where I am at, I decided to build my new gear set "Shape" based on the Hp.

Here's how I do that.

• In the game, get an initial FD setting by moving the FD slider until sixth gear is at the 95% mark.
• Go to the test pad and determine the ratio for first gear that gives me the launch I want.  Alternatively, experience says I can start with 2.68 for FR and FF cars, and 3.06 for AWD cars.
• Enter the first gear ratio in cell X2, and the value 1 in cell AC2 (sixth gear).
• Cells AF35:AK35 now contain the new gear set.  Copy these values to cells X2:AC2 (also known as the Active Gear Set).
• Now enter the value .96 in Sixth Gear (cell AC2).
• Enter the value in cell AJ35 into cell AB2 (fifth gear)
• Now enter the value .90 in Sixth Gear (cell AC2).
• This is your new transmission.  Transfer it to the game.  If sixth gear has moved off 95%, use the FD to get it back.
• Now comes test driving and Tweakage... I use the 1 mile drag and Sunset Oval.  The ideal is to have the final speed on the drag and the terminal velocity on the oval be near the same.  Launch gearing may need some adjustment as well.
• Moving back and forth between the game and the sheet will change some things.  Make sure you keep it all concurrent.

Okay, that's about it.  I hope I have helped and not confused further.  I don't know you so I had to assume a certain skill level with Excel and Mathmatic education.  If I have talked down to you or over your head, it was unententional.

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Thought I'd explain why I keep stressing the word values when I talk about moving data around.  It is because most  of the numbers on this sheet are the results of underlying functions.  If you do a straight Copy / Paste you will get the function and not the data.  The references will be all jacked up and the whole sheet turns into a mess.   If you see that happen hit the key sequence Ctrl-Z immediately and try again.  The way to copy values only is right click the cell or range where the values are to be copied TO, and select the pop-up menu option "Paste Special...", you will get an option menu with all the things that are available for specialized pasting.  One of the options is "Values Only".  I use it all the time.

[Hellisan]

Can you explain how to use the tonka's toy that is in your tuning sheet?

I have version 1.1 and it's simple to use.  I added a sprint rate front/rear entry to it that was divided by my weight to come up with the SWR automatically (I think I'm doing this right?) but and then I added a bump range to it too from 40% to 80% of the Total Rebound output. 

anyhoo, in your tuning sheet that whole section looks foreign to me, doesn't look anything like the version I have.

Help?  lol

[Blooze]

Okay, I am confused right off the bat.  Let's varify - are you using the latest version to come from the Archive?  This would be Version 3.02.02...

This is the latest version and the only one I really feel comfortable answering questions about.  I've slept quite a few times since publishing this and the only one I know about now is the current one.

Sorry...
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[Hellisan]

Okay, I am confused right off the bat.  Let's varify - are you using the latest version to come from the Archive?  This would be Version 3.02.02...

This is the latest version and the only one I really feel comfortable answering questions about.  I've slept quite a few times since publishing this and the only one I know about now is the current one.

Sorry...
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Yep, the one I'm speaking about is your latest version with the 3.02.02 Tonka in there.

Somewhere else on the forum I had got a spreadsheet with ONLY the Tonka toy, it was version 1.01 or something.  But yeah I wanna know how to work the one you've got in there.  

PS.... If tonka "released" this separately somewhere I couldn't find it, I did a search by the version number and it didn't work.