Next Series?

[BarbecuePete]

I've been looking into a workable lobby restricted series, I went with the muscle cars as we haven't really used them in a while and although we have a few specs already this one aims soley at creating matched online race cars.

The specs are..

A800 / 2500-3000lbs / 300-400hp / Pre 1976 / North America

There are 3 cars which don't fit the spec as they have over 400hp stock engines, but my experiance with these cars in the past is that they don't tend to go well with the other muscle cars anyway, the Stingray and Chevelle are notorious LB cars and the Challanger is just woefully slow in a straight line..


All the other cars i've now built up and tested to this spec and so far they are all giving very similar lap times, the lobby specs pretty much force the car builds into a full WR and slicks with some room for engine mods.

The only car i've found so far where a full WR causes problems is the ZR1 which needs large stock rims to stay above the minimum weight, but this can be solved by using the sports WR instead, I had hoped for all cars to need full WR so they have a roll cage as these are meant to be stripped out race cars but I think this is the only car which can fit the sports WR and stay under 3000lbs as well as staying under 400hp.

Test Build Car Stats

CAR	POWER	TORQUE	WEIGHT	SPEED	ACCEL	BRAKING	HANDLING
'68 GTO	394	460	2563	4.9	5.6	5.7	5.2
'69 Charger	390	499	2534	5.6	5.6	5.3	5.0
'68 Shelby Mustang	382	495	2628	5.1	5.6	5.7	5.3
'70 ZR1 (Full WR)	370	380	2501	5.3	5.8	5.5	5.2
'70 ZR1 (Sport WR)	392	402	2899	5.4	5.7	5.6	5.3
'73 Trans Am	391	500	2762	5.0	5.4	5.7	5.3
'69 Camaro Z28	359	359	2509	5.0	5.2	5.8	5.5
'68 Barracuda	386	487	2501	4.5	5.5	6.0	5.5
'69 Camaro SS	396	438	2593	4.9	5.5	5.7	5.3
'70 Boss Mustang	398	477	2610	5.1	5.5	5.6	5.2

Early testing on the cars with stock settings around sebring short found all the cars to be hitting roughly 150mph on the back straight and lap times around 73 / 74 seconds. Each car has its own strengths and weeknesses but overall these cars are very closely matched and I think should give close racing.

As for tracks in a possible series, I want to keep the American road race feel going so..

Laguna Seca
Road Atlanta
Sebring
Sebring Club / Short - Sprint Race Double Header
Road America
Daytona (Sunset Infield)

Thoughts?

[fndrbndr]

I like it.  I'd add a few snakes, though.  Then again, I'm one of the people who actually LIKES the snakes. 

Also, what does everyone think about just doing an S^4 series?  I really liked the D-class muscle cars, and we already know they lent themselves to good online racing, and were definitely an experience all their own.

[bimmerlovere39]

I like it.  I'd add a few snakes, though.  Then again, I'm one of the people who actually LIKES the snakes. 

Snakes are good, but, on the whole, don't make for clean racing.  That said, they work if you've got cars that don't mind contact, like the Clios or...

Also, what does everyone think about just doing an S^4 series?  I really liked the D-class muscle cars, and we already know they lent themselves to good online racing, and were definitely an experience all their own.

...these.  This really lends itself to online racing; I think they are (at least) worth revisiting as much as any new class is worth trying out.

[BarbecuePete]

I woudn't mind giving the S^4 cars a go too, I don't think I've tried them before and D-class is pretty rare onine..

I think a couple of 10 lap, possibly 25 lap on very short tracks like Boomslang or MVS, could work well and the snakes would a lot of fun to try and get these cars round. Also other short tracks like Tsukuba, Mugello Short, longest tracks should be something like Sebring Club or RAS.

[Snyder005]

I think it would be nice to run some lower classes for the next series.  Or R3 cars, 

I got JGTC coming up, which runs on Sunday, so if we keep the Sunday times i won't run a series. 

[Spiny Anteater]

I seem to remember that we ran a few S4 races on the Snakes quite a while ago with some success. The good thing about those tracks is that the Chevelle and the Charger ARE competitive with the rest rather than outclassing them and so could be considered for inclusion if required. However, I think a 10 lap race at Boomslang is asking for trouble - with only about 5 minutes of racing there will always be the temptation for the person starting at the back to go for a gap which isn't really there, even in a clean set of racers. Make it 25 laps and patience will be rewarded much more. (Incidentally Pete, the S^4 cars work pretty well on the long tracks too where the straights allow them to stretch their legs a bit)

I can see the case for the more restricted car choices, but one of the things I do like about the GT400's is that there is such a wide range of possible cars to enter. We don't have a single duplicate in the series, despite the relatively large proportion of rotaries I think the leaderboard car problem could be overcome by stating beforehand that certain cars are excluded from the championship. I think Detricks PI handicap could work well too, but that brings about the question of what exactly constitutes a leaderboard car? We're all agreed on the R5, but do we then start including various Lotii (or even more cars) as well?

[BarbecuePete]

I had a look at the specs for S^4...

D400

Stock tyres with minimum +1 width upgrade (Dodge Challanger is allowed stock width)

All Platform upgrades except WR (use of WR is up to the individual)

Rear Forza Aero (Use of front / rear bumpers on Baracuda is up to the  individual)


Shall we build some cars up and run a few rooms to see how they go?

Also if you want to build up a couple of the A800 spec cars we could give them a try too, also the spec Miata's and any other possible specs people want to try out like Bimmer's GT500 and we can see how they work out?

[bimmerlovere39]

Alright. This may sound crazy, but bare with me.

Thee S^4 cars make for great racing.  But I don't think that they would be well suited to an online series.

Crazy talk, right?  Well here's where you've got to bare with me.  For me, at least, part of the joy in the S^4 racing was that noone took anything to seriously.  If someone spun, it was "whatever, I'll get back in in the next race", not "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU".  I think that adding in the pressures associated with running a true series will negate some of these aspects.  The S^4 cars made for great, close, racing, but let's be honest, there was a LOT of contact (remember my brake light counting?), and I think that a serious series racing environment wouldn't allow the same degree of fun contact.  That said, I'd love to run them with you guys just for fun.  That is what they are truly exceptional at; fun.

Just my $.02.

[fndrbndr]

OK...so how about a "just for fun" running of the superstocks before Daytona?  I'll host a room starting at two instead of three tomorrow.  Be prepared for:
1.  D-class muscle (Spanky's superstock spec)
2.  Spec Miata
3.  GT500
4.  Pete's muscle car spec

[bimmerlovere39]

OK...so how about a "just for fun" running of the superstocks before Daytona?  I'll host a room starting at two instead of three tomorrow.  Be prepared for:
1.  D-class muscle (Spanky's superstock spec)
2.  Spec Miata
3.  GT500
4.  Pete's muscle car spec

I like this idea

[BarbecuePete]

OK...so how about a "just for fun" running of the superstocks before Daytona?  I'll host a room starting at two instead of three tomorrow.  Be prepared for:
1.  D-class muscle (Spanky's superstock spec)
2.  Spec Miata
3.  GT500
4.  Pete's muscle car spec

I like this idea

Me too..

[fndrbndr]

Unfortunately, it won't happen.  I'm going to have to spend the day in the lab nailling down some last-minute stuff.  I'm not going to be able to make today's race, either, but hopefully everyone has a good time.  Also, I want pics!   

[bimmerlovere39]

Unfortunately, it won't happen.  I'm going to have to spend the day in the lab nailling down some last-minute stuff.  I'm not going to be able to make today's race, either, but hopefully everyone has a good time.  Also, I want pics!   

 

I guess I'll be hosting today, then.  If I see some people online, I may well start up a pre-race lobby like Fndr was planning to. 

[BarbecuePete]

Pre race lobby became a post race lobby, but we had a blast trying out some of the specs, GT500 ended up becoming GT600 as we found a lot of cars couldn't reach 950pi with less than 500hp.. The cars generally ended up heavier than GT400 cars and there's a lot of choice in what to run... Also LB cars like the NSX and R5 turbo and Elise / Exige we felt would not do well, I built an NSX to see what it would be like but really struggled to get over 500hp due to it being quite a light car as stock, in the end it needed skinny slicks and Stock weight to reach over 500hp and stay under 950pi, and I think the R5 and Elise would have the same issue as they are all light cars..

We also gave the S^4 cars a run out around Diamondback and took a run out in the A800 Muscle Cars, these proved to be just as closely matched as i'd hoped and me, Bimmer and Spiny spent basically a whole 5 lap race around Maple Valley trading positions back and forth. 

[bimmerlovere39]

GT600